Author Topic: Gypsy Face??  (Read 3961 times)

Russ Blair

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Gypsy Face??
« on: August 03, 2015, 06:46:38 PM »
Allright I learned a valuable lesson this year about outcrossing. I purchased a Bantam Blue cockerel to help improve fertility, and hatch ability.  Now the other line has some of the same Blood of my original line so I thought it would be safe. Problem I am having is the majority of the progeny are turning out to have Gypsy Face. Now I didn't keep track of all the chicks I hatched but I did cross this cockerel with a white Cornish bantam hen. Guess what every chick but one cockerel hatched with Gypsy face. Now this Blue cockerel has a bright red comb, does this mean Gypsy face is a recessive trait? Now should I cull all chicks from him? Or would it be safe to keep the red faced ones? I have always had a couple pop up every now and then but this is the most I have ever experienced. When I noticed all the Cornish/Blue Ameraucana crosses grow into Gypsy face it reaffirmed my suspicions of the culprit.
S.E. Michigan

Lee G

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Re: Gypsy Face??
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2015, 10:31:13 AM »
You are not alone Russ. I, too, learned a valuable lesson about outcrossing this year.  :-\ Namely, it doesn't always result in anything good... the bad and the ugly are just as likely, if not more so, to pop up and ruin best laid plans. Sometimes all you can do is skim the top, strain out the dregs, and restir the pot. That or start fresh...but that's not always a viable option either. Good quality standard bred stock is not easy to find!

And sorry I'm no help with gypsy face. I don't think I've ever actually seen it in the flesh. Going to see what my genetic book has to say on the subject...

Quote
Gypsy face = dark facial skin. the genes responsible for dark pigment in the skin without fybromelanosis (Fm, dark skin like in silkies) are the first basic e-alleles that contain the most black pigment, being E, extended black and ER, to a lesser degree. The effect of the amount of black in E and ER is most clearly visible in leg colour, especially the epidermis (which is black if there are no black pigment inhibitors present.) The skin becomes darker due to sunlight. Early studies by Punnett showed gypsy face is dominant and related to birds that carry id+. Id is an inhibitor of dermal black pigment, id+ allows dermal pigment, making legs lead grey when skin colour is white. dermal means the second skin layer which is under the epidermis, the top layer. It's never been searched for which modifier gives the dark face on E black and ER birchen breeds. In Crawford's book (Poultry Breeding and Genetics) its suggested that's it's an unknown and there could be also another (new) e-allele, so a different E extended black and a different ER birchen....taken from Genetics of the Chicken Extremes by Sigrid Van Dort and Friends.

^ That only goes back as far as 2008 though. Maybe something new has been discovered since?
~ The duty of the breeder today and tomorrow is to create rather than imitate or simply perpetuate -- Horace Dryden

Russ Blair

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Re: Gypsy Face??
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2015, 04:11:08 PM »
Thanks Lee, I know I do not want to keep any with Gypsy Face. I guess I will just have to test mate any/all birds with red face and combs and hope for the best 😃. Just odd how all my breeders had red combs and face but I ended up with so many Gypsy faced birds. I will hold on to the cockerel just to use him to try and test all pullets next year ugh always something 😔
S.E. Michigan