Ameraucana Forum
The Official Ameraucana Forum => Breeding => Topic started by: Cesar Villegas on September 10, 2016, 10:33:16 AM
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Ive been told that silver base whites make for better whites. But is there a big notable difference between gold and silver based whites? What do you get with gold base whites?
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Ive been told that silver base whites make for better whites. But is there a big notable difference between gold and silver based whites? What do you get with gold base whites?
Since silver is actually the color white it sounds logical to have silver (white) at the S-locus under recessive white at the C-locus, in case of leakage. Then white would leak thru in the areas turned white, by silver, instead of gold, if there was leakage. With dominant white (I) there is a better chance of leakage than with recessive white (c). Theoretically you should be able to produce white chickens with just silver (S) and blue (splash) (Bl), so starting there and adding both dominant white and recessive white should cover all bases.
Logically it then also seems to me that silver, rather than gold, should also be carried by lavender...at least if there is any chance of leakage. I don't think mine show leakage, but rather a straw color affects the feathers of some males like I've seen in whites and the silver variety. All are based on silver, so the problem isn't with the S-locus. There is some other genetic cause that needs attention. I doubt the root of the problem has to do with diet or sun, although they may magnify the condition.
I know I've read and repeated that good blacks with the beetle green sheen should be based on gold, but also question that now. Silver/gold is certainly important when the S-locus color(s) show, but if and when they are completely masked and don't affect the ground color they may not matter or even be detected without DNA or test mating. I'm just not sure if and when they really effect ground color.
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Ive been told that silver base whites make for better whites. But is there a big notable difference between gold and silver based whites? What do you get with gold base whites?
Since silver is actually the color white it sounds logical to have silver (white) at the S-locus under recessive white at the C-locus, in case of leakage. Then white would leak thru in the areas turned white, by silver, instead of gold, if there was leakage. With dominant white (I) there is a better chance of leakage than with recessive white (c). Theoretically you should be able to produce white chickens with just silver (S) and blue (splash) (Bl), so starting there and adding both dominant white and recessive white should cover all bases.
Logically it then also seems to me that silver, rather than gold, should also be carried by lavender...at least if there is any chance of leakage. I don't think mine show leakage, but rather a straw color affects the feathers of some males like I've seen in whites and the silver variety. All are based on silver, so the problem isn't with the S-locus. There is some other genetic cause that needs attention. I doubt the root of the problem has to do with diet or sun, although they may magnify the condition.
I know I've read and repeated that good blacks with the beetle green sheen should be based on gold, but also question that now. Silver/gold is certainly important when the S-locus color(s) show, but if and when they are completely masked and don't affect the ground color they may not matter or even be detected without DNA or test mating. I'm just not sure if and when they really effect ground color.
Would you be able to tell if recessive white chicks are either Gold or Silver?
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I believe gold based whites would be more prone to brassiness, especially with extended exposure to the sun. To make a really good recessive white I believe your birds should carry not only S, but Co (Columbian), Bl (blue) and B (barring). And, there should be also be the absence of Ap (autosomal red). I believe the latter gene is probably why John is seeing some straw color in some of his lavenders.
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Would you be able to tell if recessive white chicks are either Gold or Silver?
I doubt that you can just by phenotype.
To make a really good recessive white I believe your birds should carry not only S, but Co (Columbian), Bl (blue) and B (barring).
Just a note that we don't suggest anyone add barring to the mix with white Ameraucanas, since it also extends into the shanks.
http://ameraucanaalliance.org/forum/index.php?topic=385.msg2725#msg2725
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Would you be able to tell if recessive white chicks are either Gold or Silver?
Gold chicks hatch out yellow, the silver hatch out a smokey gray color.
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Would you be able to tell if recessive white chicks are either Gold or Silver?
Gold chicks hatch out yellow, the silver hatch out a smokey gray color.
I believe that is generally true, but it may also depend on the e-locus gene and modifieers. I don't think it is necessarily true for dominant white. Ever see White Leghorn chicks?
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So what is the proper color for white Ameraucana chicks then? Im a little confused now
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Smokey yellow to smokey white is what I have seen in the better bantam whites. They are based on recessive white.
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Maybe with some breeds and varieties it is easy to tell if the chick is silver or gold based at the S-locus just by down color. It sounds logical. Chick down color and pattern (phenotype) are indicators of mature color and pattern, but some of those day-old chick phenotypes (http://ameraucanaalliance.org/forum/index.php?topic=559.0) look very similar to others and are hard to decipher.
I don't breed dominant whites, so maybe with them a gold based chick would be more yellow/gold. With our recessive white Ameraucanas day old chicks look like those posted on our Photos (http://ameraucanaalliance.org/photos.html) page. The chicks appear to have both hues, yet they mature into pure white adult birds. After you get past breed and variety you will also note one established line will produce a noticeably different day-old chick phenotype than another.