Ameraucana Forum
The Official Ameraucana Forum => Breeding => Topic started by: Steve Neumann on February 15, 2016, 10:06:22 PM
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This is one of my color projects this year. I've assembled this trio from available birds. All comments and criticisms welcome, no matter how brutal. I know I could outcross to an established line of Brown Reds. I haven't ruled out doing that, but I want to see how far I can take them...just for fun. ;D If anybody else has pictures of nice Birchens they've made, I would love to see them.
Cockerel and my better pullet.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/steveniggemann/Birchen%20Project/DSC_0157_zpsrsuxcnvz.jpg)
My better pullet.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/steveniggemann/Birchen%20Project/DSC_0160-001_zpsde5zw5xl.jpg)
Gold hen, will only keep silver females from her.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/steveniggemann/Birchen%20Project/DSC_0165_zps1pjyuoja.jpg)
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Hi Steve, very interesting project you have going on. Sorry I can't help with any genetics, (I'm still playing in the kiddie pool myself, ;)) but wanted to say I really like your top pullet. She has a very nice head, and shape. Also, if you have the time and space, I wouldn't wait to outcross to an established strain of brown reds. That way if things get hairy, you'll have a few different options to go forward with, instead of backwards, or starting over from scratch. It may save some time as well, not to mention increase genetic diversity in your birds in all the right ways. Just my few cents anyway. I hope you'll post more pictures as you go. :)
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It is fun to tinker with these different color projects. I had developed birchen in both large fowl and bantams years ago, but got rid of them because nobody else was interested in raising them. Along with brown red, they are a difficult variety to maintain for proper color.
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Lee, I'm thinking about it. But something would probably have to go. Preferably not my wife. Mike, did you use Brown Reds and Silvers to develop Birchen? Instead of outcrossing to Brown Red, could I also outcross to an established line of ER based Blues?
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The pair in the top photo appear to be e+ based. The hen shows some salmon in her breast and the cock has somewhat of a silver wing triangle.
What is their background?
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John, the cockerel hatched out as a solid black chick and got silver lacing. Here's the earliest pic I took.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/steveniggemann/Birchen%20Project/DSC_0010-001_zpssd2jkcxm.jpg)
And the top pullet was a solid blue chick. Here's the earliest pic of her, when she started getting lacing.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/steveniggemann/Birchen%20Project/DSC_0340_zpscsozshq0.jpg)
I assumed they were carrying at least one copy of ER because of the down color and how they feathered out?
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My guess is that they are e+/e+, e+/eWh or e+/eb.
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If both the cock and the one pullet are e+ or split for e+, then I should get some silver chipmunk striped chicks from that pairing, right? Is it possible for an e+/e^Wh or e+/e+ chick to hatch solid blue or black? I thought only E, ER, and e^b could give you solid black or blue chicks? If that's not the case, then I need to rethink what I'm doing.
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If both the cock and the one pullet are e+ or split for e+, then I should get some silver chipmunk striped chicks from that pairing, right?
Maybe. If these didn't have stripes, then whatever additional genes that didn't allow the to express in their chick phenotype may be passed on to the next generation.
Is it possible for an e+/e^Wh or e+/e+ chick to hatch solid blue or black?
I don't think 100% "solid"...maybe a lot of cream/white in the face.
I thought only E, ER, and e^b could give you solid black or blue chicks? If that's not the case, then I need to rethink what I'm doing.
With most genes being wildtype you can come close to judging the E-locus by chick phenotype, but there are some genes that will throw you off track. If I had seen photos of the day-old chicks I might have guessed the same as you, but I am only judging the adult photos.
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Thanks, John. You've given me a lot to think about. I read the section in the 1976 Smyth paper about building blacks on e+ and e^Wh. Also looked back over photos and did some head scratching. I will still hatch from this trio once the pullet starts laying, because now I'm even more curious to see what I get.
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(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/steveniggemann/13323675_10209199358041724_5564708385016052212_o_zpsxaiv7mms.jpg)Just wanted to give you guys an update. The cockerel ended up being split for silver and gold and his tail got too ugly for me to stand, so I got rid of him. I did get a mess of birds, including e+ or e^b chicks, I don't know who was split for what. But I did end up with half a dozen Birchen pullets by phenotype. Whether they were melanized e+/e^b or actually Birchen, I couldn't say, but they did have the white middle toenail like my other Birchen based blues. Since the tails were ugly and I didn't get any decent cockerels, I sold them all and bought some Silvers.
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Mike, did you use Brown Reds and Silvers to develop Birchen? Instead of outcrossing to Brown Red, could I also outcross to an established line of ER based Blues?
Maybe Steve, the Birchen Maran project can give you some answers.
http://www.maransofamericaclub.com/birchen-marans.html (http://www.maransofamericaclub.com/birchen-marans.html)
Sue Paolini, NePA