Ameraucana Forum
The Official Ameraucana Forum => Breeding => Topic started by: The Malcolms on July 06, 2015, 06:40:46 PM
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Hello all,
We are looking for information on the development of bantam silvers. Walter is using his silver hen for showmanship at fair. He is showing to a judge he has seen twice before but not for several years. Walt would like to wow the judge with information about his breed and variety. Ameraucanas are not well known out here like some breeds. This judge is an Orpington, Cochin, modern game bantam breeder so Walter is trying to teach him about the Ameraucanas. Any help you can give would be great. Thanks!
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I think Jerry Segler would be the one with the answers. ;)
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My understanding is that the late Ralph Brazelton of Kansas developed some Silver bantams back in the day before they were known as Ameraucana. Jerry Segler got stock directly from him, but I'm not sure what Jerry may have crossed them with. Later John and I worked hard on bantam silvers as well. I have not had them for years now. Curtis Beck had some pretty fair silver bantams as well, but he moved to town and no longer keeps chickens.
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The silver bantams I received from Ralph Brazelton were mixed with whites when I received them . He did not have a silver rooster at that time . So they were nearly gone . Due to the rooster being white in this mating there was no salmon breast in the hens . I was unable to get good colored females from these . I added silver Duckwing Old English bantam to these to restore the female color . This line was eventually lost . No one else had any so I recreated them . I used the white hens and silver Duckwing Old English for this . I had no color problems with these so I guess the whites were silver based at that time . Anyway mating this way the females had salmon breasts . This line was believed lost later but I found a hen and revived the line . These have since been blended with ones John Blehm and Curtis Beck had .
Mike Gilbert and John Blehm worked on that line .
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Thanks for that information Jerry. Do you still have silver bantams?
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Thank you all for the information. Follow up question...
Are the silver bantams bred down from the silver LF or are the not related in anyway?
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Thank you all for the information. Follow up question...
Are the silver bantams bred down from the silver LF or are the not related in anyway?
Related for sure.
I pulled out my old black notebook from way back. The notes aren't great, but they sometimes fill in where my memory lacks. On one page I have a heading SILVERS (BANTAM)/LARGE, so it gives a few details of trying to create LF silvers starting in 1988. I used some of those results the next year when trying to create bantam silvers. In 1989 I started on bantams with some of my own crosses and eggs from Jerry that year.
1989
Silver duckwing Amer. bantams
1/2 white/ 1/2 silver Old Eng. cock x silver O.E. hen, white Amer. hen & 1/2 white Amer/ 1/2 silver O.E. hen.
Between these crosses & the chicks Hatched from J. Segler's eggs, I saved the best 2 pullets & 2 cockerels.
The silvers from Jerry were "Tweeners" as Jeanne Treat would call them...medium sized birds somewhere in-between bantam and LF or oversized bantams. I used them in my breeding for both sizes with outcrosses and crossbreeding. I also used O.E. Game to reduce the size of the bantams and I crossed in LF Old English with my LF silver Ameraucanas.
1990
Silver bantams (medium sized hen) 2 cocks switched weekly.
Saved the old silver hen & one nice looking young hen.
My notes for 1991 don't mention bantam silvers, but under LARGE I have:
Silver, 2 medium sized hens x white cock, also x large B.B. red O.E. (Mark's), kept 1 B.B. hen 1/2 O.E. & 1/2 silver AM.
For 1992 my notes don't mention LF silvers. As I go thru these I see "medium sized" used a lot in the early years for me and some of the same birds were used in both breeding projects. Even though bantam and LF silvers share common ancestry they appear to not be the same genetically for the silver color/variety. At least with my lines of each the cockerels of each size go thru different feather patterns (phenotype) as they molt and mature.
The influence of Old English Game still shows today. I see that back in 1994 my breeding pen for bantam silvers had "4 medium sized hens x bantam black cocks". I probably didn't have a decent silver cock to use, but also the outcross probably helped get a little better Ameraucana type.
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The influence of Old English Game still shows today. I see that back in 1994 my breeding pen for bantam silvers had "4 medium sized hens x bantam black cocks". I probably didn't have a decent silver cock to use, but also the outcross probably helped get a little better Ameraucana type.
"The influence of Old English Game still shows today"
John, I'm curious. What type of influence?
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"The influence of Old English Game still shows today"
John, I'm curious. What type of influence?
The overall type of the bantam silvers is more Game looking than the other varieties. The tails are much longer and the combs on the males still have some modifying gene(s) making them appear almost like a single comb. One reason for all the outcrosses I've made is to get them (bantam silvers) to look more like the others. Look at a profile of a silver male next to one of some other Ameraucana variety and you'll see what I'm referring to. The LF silvers have made progress in this area.
Attached is the White and Silver Ameraucana Bantams article, Jerry, wrote for the club's original Handbook in 1982.
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Thanks for that link John . It provides more detail than my memory .
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Thanks for that link John . It provides more detail than my memory .
Its been years since I read that, but pulled out the old Handbook thinking there was something mentioned there about Brazelton and lucked out finding your article.
The little black book of mine doesn't have a lot of notes, but there are some facts there that I don't remember after all these years and they may be of interest to some others.
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Awesome read thanks for sharing 😃
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I forgot to mention that I still have some bantam silver .
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Glad to hear that Jerry. Do yours have the same issue with the blade type comb?
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issue with the blade type comb?
Here are a couple photos. Note it is a pea comb with 3 ridges, but the center ridge is much higher like resembling a single comb.
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Thank you everyone for all the information! It makes us want to get busier with the silver bantams!
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I do not have much trouble with the combs . Curtis Becks birds had a very low comb and the rows were not always well defined . Very good comb really . So combining the 3 lines gave some diversity . I need to raise a lot of these but have not yet . Kind of on the back burner for now .
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Jerry, do you have any silver bantam males with good combs you are willing to sell? Maybe a pair of silver bantams? We would like to breed our bantam silver hen to a very good male.
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Which bantam male variety have the best combs?
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From what I have seen they are all very good as a general rule except for some of the silvers. Of course there are always exceptions to most any physical trait.
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Which bantam male variety have the best combs?
Bantam buffs from my experience, but there are "exceptions" as Mike said and I noticed a couple lavender pullets this year with what I would call exceptionally good pea combs.
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I do not have any silver bantams to sell at this time . I was going to share comb picture but must wait for DW to help me resize .
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