Ameraucana Forum
The Official Ameraucana Forum => Housing, Health & Hatching => Topic started by: Cesar Villegas on April 02, 2015, 12:46:04 PM
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Greetings, I was hoping to get some input on a pullet who not laid yet and shes almost a year old.
No signs of illness, she eats/drinks and acts normal. She lets the cockerel mount her, thats been going on for about 1.5 months. No external parasites. Ive check the droppings in the run/coop and no signs of worms. No signs of egg bound.
She's not an egg eater since I have roll away nest boxes. So far I have two AM's that are laying and I know there egg color.
Is this normal? Can her reproductive system be damaged? Is there anything I could do ?
V/r
- Cesar
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Once in a great while you get one like that. She probably has some internal abnormality. I don't think I would waste any more feed and space on her.
Sorry!
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Mike, Im going to have to agree with you on that. However she is the best pullet that I have. Im going to give her 1 more month, if nothing then I will have to cull her from my flock.
Any suggestions to help her get started?
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Just make sure she has a stress free environment and a good layer/breeder ration. If she was getting a lot of corn during the grow-out period it is possible she has too much internal fat, but I don't know what kind of ration she has been getting.
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Since you think she is your best...
I would put her in a separate pen and if you have a white or brown egg layer she gets along with put them with her for company. I have also had success leaving free choice oyster shell even if your regular ration has enough by itself. Make sure it is oyster shell and not the calcium coral some companies are selling. I have a couple birds that do not do as well on the coral.
PS I have 2 sister hens whose eggs are identical in shape and color so maybe the girls are pulling a fast one on you?
Good luck!
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Is this normal?
I've had at least a couple similar problems with pullets/hens this season. They've been in breeding coops by themselves, with a cock or visits from cocks. One is a bantam lavender. I had given up hope and she finally laid an egg last week. A partridge Chantecler hadn't laid an egg and I added her to a bunch of butcher birds I sold a couple weeks ago.
It happens.
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John, Ill pick up a bag of a good breeder feed tommorrow. She with the rest her pen mates free eat regular layer feed. Plus i feed them treats e.g. tomatoes, strawberries, lettuce etc.. John, I just built some small pens, Ill keep her in one of those.
The Malcolm Family- You make a good point. Since Im home during the day, Im constantly checking on them through out the day. I can tell who went inside the nest box and its never her. Its become an obsession trying to see if she lays haha..
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Duds happen for sure. Last year I had a lovely splash pullet that laid big, beautiful sky blue eggs, but frustratingly remained infertile no matter what male I tried pairing her with....I gave up after four. And because I couldn't bare to look at her back then, she now resides at another neighbours farm who is happy to appreciate beauty for beauty itself.
That said, even if your pullet begins laying this month, I personally would not use her as a breeder. Almost a year old and no eggs just doesn't seem right to me. Not unless late laying is something you want more of.... as the saying goes, you only have what you tolerate....
Sorry to be a voice of dissension. :(
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, I personally would not use her as a breeder. Almost a year old and no eggs just doesn't seem right to me. Not unless late laying is something you want more of.... as the saying goes, you only have what you tolerate....
Totally agree.
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, I personally would not use her as a breeder. Almost a year old and no eggs just doesn't seem right to me. Not unless late laying is something you want more of.... as the saying goes, you only have what you tolerate....
Totally agree.
Mike is laying late a trait passed on from mother to son ?
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I'm somewhere in the middle on this. There are times when a bird has some special trait/characteristic that you want in your flock and even though she isn't good layer you breed for that special something. Mark her offspring to know which ones came from her. Rate of lay is just one trait to consider and "compensation mating" is the tool to keep in mind with all this.
I know the old saying about "never say never", but a good rule of thumb that I've always gone by is to never hatch chicks from hens that never lay. ???
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I have some pullets who haven't been laying. I think they don't like the breeding pens I've put them in. They've gone on strike. Only my split lav is laying 5-6 eggs a week. The others: zero. None show signs of illness or egg binding.
John, do you think adding on nest boxes to my pen design would help? Do your pens have boxes?
Currently I have removed the cocks from the pens to see if they were just not laying because of them (stage fright?), but it sounds like you sometimes leave cocks in without a problem?
My pens are 32x36 and I have 1-2 females in each.
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I have some pullets who haven't been laying. I think they don't like the breeding pens I've put them in. They've gone on strike. Only my split lav is laying 5-6 eggs a week. The others: zero. None show signs of illness or egg binding.
John, do you think adding on nest boxes to my pen design would help? Do your pens have boxes?
Currently I have removed the cocks from the pens to see if they were just not laying because of them (stage fright?), but it sounds like you sometimes leave cocks in without a problem?
My pens are 32x36 and I have 1-2 females in each.
With only one or hens per coop/pen I would try to only have a cock visit for a day or two once or twice a week. The girls may get over worked by leaving one in 24/7. In flock matings of say 7 or more hens I leave a cock in fulltime and rotate a different cock bird in and out once or twice a week, so one is always on his own resting up.
My individual breeding coops for LF are a bit smaller and I have nesting areas in some, but not in the latest ones I built. I don't thing it increases egg production either way. With your bigger coops maybe a nest box in a secluded back corner would help.
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Hey, girl, good to see you here! Glad the split is laying well for you. Hope the lavs step up their game soon!
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Thanks John!
Yes, Beth, my split lays beautifully for me! She's got the best egg color out of them too! :)
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My first coops for LF were about 2' deep by 3' wide and I used the bottom of a 5 gallon pail for a nest box in one corner with a hinged piece of plywood overtop to add privacy. Generally the hens lay in the boxes, but not always.
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Finally made some room and placed her in her own pen. I started her on a breeder feed, hopefully this should kick start her laying.
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I've been watching this with much interest, as I have FOUR like this, purchased as chicks from different flocks, all will be a year old next month. One has produced 2-3 dwarf eggs a few months apart, the others have not even hinted at laying. I initially had them penned alone, but it was a waste of space so I moved them in with other birds, who are laying, so if they are eating them they are only eating their own, the other birds are still producing. I sent one up to Don Cash, hopefully she'll like him better than she does me...
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I've been watching this with much interest, as I have FOUR like this, purchased as chicks from different flocks, all will be a year old next month. One has produced 2-3 dwarf eggs a few months apart, the others have not even hinted at laying. I initially had them penned alone, but it was a waste of space so I moved them in with other birds, who are laying, so if they are eating them they are only eating their own, the other birds are still producing. I sent one up to Don Cash, hopefully she'll like him better than she does me...
Beth, are they showing any signs of maturing? Mine has a bright red comb and lets the cockerel mount her. He's been mounting for about a month now.
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I have some pullets who haven't been laying. I think they don't like the breeding pens I've put them in. They've gone on strike. Only my split lav is laying 5-6 eggs a week. The others: zero. None show signs of illness or egg binding.
John, do you think adding on nest boxes to my pen design would help? Do your pens have boxes?
Currently I have removed the cocks from the pens to see if they were just not laying because of them (stage fright?), but it sounds like you sometimes leave cocks in without a problem?
My pens are 32x36 and I have 1-2 females in each.
With only one or hens per coop/pen I would try to only have a cock visit for a day or two once or twice a week. The girls may get over worked by leaving one in 24/7. In flock matings of say 7 or more hens I leave a cock in fulltime and rotate a different cock bird in and out once or twice a week, so one is always on his own resting up.
My individual breeding coops for LF are a bit smaller and I have nesting areas in some, but not in the latest ones I built. I don't thing it increases egg production either way. With your bigger coops maybe a nest box in a secluded back corner would help.
John in your opinion how long would better feed and comfortable living space make her start laying? How fast does nutrition work on a female chicken?
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John in your opinion how long would better feed and comfortable living space make her start laying? How fast does nutrition work on a female chicken?
Opinion is all I have to offer on those. We do know stress can cause an interruption in egg production. Poor nutrition, parasites, inadequate housing and other things can bring on stress.
If a hen isn't laying because genetically or due to some "condition" (perhaps hormonal) she either won't lay or lays at a very poor rate, I don't think diet or housing will help.
When I put hens in individual breeding coops I can document how well each lays and the quality of their eggs. In flock matings I may have hens that don't lay at all, but I don't know it. They say ignorance is bliss, but it makes me wish I had the facilities to put all the hens in individual breeding coops during hatching season. ;)
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The no laying thing has been bugging me all week. Finally had some time to relax and read last night, and I found this write up in one of my books....
No or bad egg laying (ro)
The short 'ro' comes from restricted ovulator. (Strange word 'ovulator', whats the name of the male equivalent?) Hens with 'ro' lay a few or no eggs. The eggs are much smaller than normal and the yolks are transparent and deep orange in colour compared to normal yolks which are opaque and more yellowish. The hens had hyperlipidaemia, which is the wrong amount of fat in their blood, and less iron and copper in the eggs plus more natrium and kalium. The gene 'ro' causes abnormal iron intake and metabolism. Typical is the transparent deep orange yolk. The gene 'ro' is sex linked recessive and linked to k+ (fast feather growth) and id+ (dark dermis, inside the leg) -- taken from Genetics of the Chicken Extremes by Sigrid Van Dort and Friends
Definitely something to cull hard for imo.
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The no laying thing has been bugging me all week. Finally had some time to relax and read last night, and I found this write up in one of my books....
No or bad egg laying (ro)
The short 'ro' comes from restricted ovulator. (Strange word 'ovulator', whats the name of the male equivalent?) Hens with 'ro' lay a few or no eggs. The eggs are much smaller than normal and the yolks are transparent and deep orange in colour compared to normal yolks which are opaque and more yellowish. The hens had hyperlipidaemia, which is the wrong amount of fat in their blood, and less iron and copper in the eggs plus more natrium and kalium. The gene 'ro' causes abnormal iron intake and metabolism. Typical is the transparent deep orange yolk. The gene 'ro' is sex linked recessive and linked to k+ (fast feather growth) and id+ (dark dermis, inside the leg) -- taken from Genetics of the Chicken Extremes by Sigrid Van Dort and Friends
Definitely something to cull hard for imo.
So if RO is sexlinked then you wouldnt use her male offspring?
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That would be correct - assuming she ever has any. Male equivalent? Infertility? Since males don't ovulate, the only thing I can think of is low sperm count. Perhaps sperm that have low motility?
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I just saw this on BYC, can this be true?
"In some areas, your well water may have too much dissolved sodium, which also will stop egg production."
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I would take anything posted on BYC with a "grain of salt." ;D If you think that is a possibility you could always have your water tested. It is not a problem in our area; we do have a lot of iron in our own well water though. Enough so that the untreated water coming to the coop hydrant stains the water containers over time.
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I just saw this on BYC, can this be true?
"In some areas, your well water may have too much dissolved sodium, which also will stop egg production."
I don't know how much they think is "too much", but our well water is quite salty (besides iron) and that is what the birds get. We do have "city water" in the house. ;)
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I just saw this on BYC, can this be true?
"In some areas, your well water may have too much dissolved sodium, which also will stop egg production."
I don't know how much they think is "too much", but our well water is quite salty (besides iron) and that is what the birds get. We do have "city water" in the house. ;)
Well my other pullets are drinking the same water and they are doing good haha
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I would echo John's comments about "rate of lay" being only one of many things to consider when putting your breeding program and pens together. It was 3-4yrs ago or so that I was experiencing 6mos or more of no eggs from my Ameraucanas. Since I'm in this for the Exhibition and it's a hobby, and I'm not running an egg business, and I usually wind up way in the RED, I sucked up the cost and just worked with it. I've dealt with small eggs, torpedo-shaped eggs, very light blue eggs, and even white eggs. In fact, it was those white eggs that actually increased my production and bettered the size and shape because those 2 BW hens gave me 5 eggs/wk each.
Now I honestly can't tell ya what the birds are producing because I haven't kept track of that - yet. It's been pretty low on my list of priorities but it is climbing. All I know is that I'm getting more eggs now, quite a few that are going 2oz and better, and I'm getting the best color on some I've ever had. Oh, and no more of those stupid, tall, thin, torpedo-shaped eggs either.
So why do I bring all that up? Just to say this... my advice is to look at your birds and set your priorities. You can't fix everything at once. Er, I should say I've never been able to fix everything at once. I've had to decide what I wanted to fix and realize that it might take 2-3yrs to get it fixed and set. Close your flock, define your lines according to your goals, and then work toward them. Maybe you'll wanna start one line just to see if you can increase egg production, size, color, shape, or what-have-you and not worry about the SOP. Nothing wrong with that.
I also wanted to agree with Mike about BYC. Though I wouldn't even take BYC as a grain of salt. There's more misinformation and outright falsehoods on there than any other poultry site I've seen. At least there was and that's why I haven't been there in years.
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I would take anything posted on BYC with a "grain of salt." ;D
Haha! I'm with Royce, more like a 50# block! ;D I'm on city water, so we should be good, but I am curious, if anyone comes up with any info on this.
The ro thing is interesting, especially the link with k+, since Kn has been the bane of my existence...
Cesar: They vary. One pullet shows no evidence of ever breeding, not a feather turned, even though she has been paired with a male for months. One female hasn't been with a male since winter. Two have mated on a regular basis. One of those has produced dwarf eggs a few months apart, but never a full size egg. I suspect a problem with her, ro fits with what I'm seeing, although I haven't opened any of the eggs. She may be on the next auction load. The other 3 have qualities I'm willing to wait on, at least a little while longer. One of them survived coccidia as a chick and her development has been slower than the others, but steady.
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I would take anything posted on BYC with a "grain of salt." ;D
Haha! I'm with Royce, more like a 50# block! ;D I'm on city water, so we should be good, but I am curious, if anyone comes up with any info on this.
The ro thing is interesting, especially the link with k+, since Kn has been the bane of my existence...
Cesar: They vary. One pullet shows no evidence of ever breeding, not a feather turned, even though she has been paired with a male for months. One female hasn't been with a male since winter. Two have mated on a regular basis. One of those has produced dwarf eggs a few months apart, but never a full size egg. I suspect a problem with her, ro fits with what I'm seeing, although I haven't opened any of the eggs. She may be on the next auction load. The other 3 have qualities I'm willing to wait on, at least a little while longer. One of them survived coccidia as a chick and her development has been slower than the others, but steady.
Beth, I really want to wait on this one. But it is getting frustrating especially with my lack of space. Im thinking of taking her to a friend who has a small backyard flock who said she would take her. And if and when she starts laying I can have her back. Im giving her until the end of the month to lay.
Im asking around locally to see if i can get another black AM.
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Greetings, I was hoping to get some input on a pullet who not laid yet and shes almost a year old.
I fixed the problem I had with 3 pullets/hens this evening. One bantam lavender had only laid two eggs, one LF lavender laid greenish eggs and another laid well, but they were all soft shelled and eaten. The buyer of those three and a few others will enjoy a few chicken diners. ::)
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Do they need a few more John? These would be more a Cornish hen size lol. A pullet not laying is like a cockerel not being fertile. Pretty much useless in a breeding program, and something I have been experiencing myself. Of course it always seems to be the best/favorites which proves a very valid point....good "show" birds don't always make the best breeders 😩
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Do they need a few more John? These would be more a Cornish hen size lol. A pullet not laying is like a cockerel not being fertile. Pretty much useless in a breeding program, and something I have been experiencing myself. Of course it always seems to be the best/favorites which proves a very valid point....good "show" birds don't always make the best breeders 😩
Russ, I guess I'm in that club haha.. And you're right in my case its my best pullet hahaha :'(
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Cesar I'm right there with you - hate to give up on birds I bought and put a year into raising but they are taking up prime real estate, to say nothing of feed.
Russ so true! I've heard it said that the best breeder is the one that is willing to pass on it's genes - don't remember who said it, but they sure were right. I've had some beautiful birds that I just could not get offspring from - either they didn't lay, weren't fertile, the eggs didn't hatch or the chicks were unthrifty. Pretty is as pretty does!
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Im thinking it has to do with nutrition in this situation. I have another younger black pullet that is not laying also. My older black pullet and younger pullet where kept with someone else during the winter. And i dont know what they were fed or how often.
I kept my younger pullet's hatch mate with me and she started laying 1.5 months ago. They both hatched 7-9-14
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She did it !!!! She laid an egg this morning 4-16-15 :) :)
Might have been the leftover chili I gave her a few days ago hahaha. I just hope she keeps it going !
Also it's a good size egg 😀
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I have discovered that as a general rule, when they take longer to start laying, the first eggs are larger than normal pullet sized eggs. I suppose because their bodies and reproductive systems are more fully developed. Rate of lay may or may not be affected.
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I have discovered that as a general rule, when they take longer to start laying, the first eggs are larger than normal pullet sized eggs. I suppose because their bodies and reproductive systems are more fully developed. Rate of lay may or may not be affected.
Mike have the ones who have taken a while for you, have they've been good layers after their first egg?
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Some have been, others not so much. I'm not sure there is a connection. I have heard it said that the first layers will be your best layers, but I have not found that to be true. I suppose if you only take into account the eggs laid in their first year it would be true, but as hobbyists we tend to keep our layers longer than one year.
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Yay!!
It might have been the chili. I'd forgotten all about it, but some old-timers swear by adding red pepper to feed to stimulate birds to lay. Always thought it was just a wives tale, but feed is expensive and pepper is cheap, might have to spice things up around here!
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My first coops for LF were about 2' deep by 3' wide
Where did you get the feed box? that's a great size. Thanks
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My first coops for LF were about 2' deep by 3' wide
Where did you get the feed box? that's a great size. Thanks
Those are 7" FM7 Rabbit and Small Animal Feeders from Cutler Supply (http://cutlersupply.com/zen_new51/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12_68&products_id=710).
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Thank you John.
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"Laying update"
So far she has laid an egg everyday but once, since she started laying on the 16th.
Would it be ok to integrate her back into my breeding flock?
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If she is your "best" pullet, why not leave her where she is and bring the rooster to her a couple days a week? I'm assuming you want to save her eggs for hatching, of course. Sometimes when they are moved they stop laying for a time, especially if the other hens see her as an outsider and keep her on the roost or in hiding.
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If she is your "best" pullet, why not leave her where she is and bring the rooster to her a couple days a week? I'm assuming you want to save her eggs for hatching, of course. Sometimes when they are moved they stop laying for a time, especially if the other hens see her as an outsider and keep her on the roost or in hiding.
Good point Mike, I shouldnt ruin a good thing going on haha.. I just needed the room, I guess this weekend I have to build more pens lol
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I just saw this on BYC, can this be true?
"In some areas,
That's doubtful. It would have to be so high to effect the hen that you would know it first.