Author Topic: Question for the experts re: Wheatens ;)  (Read 132 times)

Kara

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
Question for the experts re: Wheatens ;)
« on: October 31, 2018, 06:51:58 PM »
I very much like this young cockerel, but am unsure about the saddle feather color extending into the tail? Should I not consider him for breeding? Genetically will he produce this or worse? Thanks in advance!


Kara

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
Re: Question for the experts re: Wheatens ;)
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2018, 06:53:32 PM »
Another image.

Mike Gilbert

  • Lifetime Member
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
    • Red Stag Acres
Re: Question for the experts re: Wheatens ;)
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2018, 08:41:35 PM »
I would consider that a minor issue.  I would be more concerned about the blue striping in the hackle.  But it's probably best to work on one issue at a time.   
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11,12

Tailfeathers

  • College
  • ****
  • Posts: 352
  • Breeder & Exhibitor of WBS Ameraucanas since 2008
Re: Question for the experts re: Wheatens ;)
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2018, 09:04:58 PM »
Kara, the WBS cockerels take about a year to mature before you can really make a final decision on whether to breed or cull unless there is an obvious DQ.

I recognize that particular strain/line of BW I think.  It has some real strengths (cleanest hackles I've seen on any strain/line, overall color - especially in the hackles, bows, and saddles - closer to the SOP, just to name a couple) but I've also noticed some red bleeding in the body color.  So I'd watch for that in addition to the saddle color moving into the tail.  You may find as he matures that goes away. 

Without knowing more about your flock (Where'd they come from, how long have you had them, what's your breeding program consist of, etc.) I'm really unable to offer much in the way of any specificity but I'll try to help with some general and hopefully helpful comments.

As for the genetics and how it's passed on, Mike is the guy to talk to about that.  I really can't help you there.  Sorry.  But let me end this by encouraging you to stick with the WBS.  Start with what you have and work each year just to make them a little better.  The LF WBS still need a lot of work and it's gonna take time to get them to where the bantams are now. 

I believe there is still a lot of genetic diversity within the LF WBS variety in all the different lines out there that you in all probability could breed that bird and get a half dozen different looking offspring from it.  I have now bred LF WBS as a closed flock for over a decade so I think I've probably got some of, if not the, purest LF WBS blood in the country AND I STILL get a lot of diversity in my offspring.  While the majority of my birds are now showing much more uniformity, I still get an occasional bird - usually a pullet - that makes me think "What the heck happened there?!"

So my advice to you is this:  1) Definitely check with Mike on the genetics of that, 2) Then prioritize that info with everything else you have to fix in you birds, 3) Remember, you can't fix it all at once.  Plan your work & work your Plan, and 4) Perhaps most importantly, close up your flock and work on purifying your blood so that you know what you got.  Bringing in "new blood" will never get you to a place where you know what you have and uniformity with the ability to "set" certain traits will never be there.

I realize that the above probably doesn't help you much in getting a direct answer but I think you'll find that quick, easy answers to give us directions are hard to come by.  I hope this was a little helpful.
God Bless,

R. E. Van Blaricome
Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God, and all His Righteousness
- then these things shall be added unto you (Matt. 6:33)

Kara

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
Re: Question for the experts re: Wheatens ;)
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2018, 09:12:47 PM »
Thank you both. I admit this variety is not my specialty, I took this flock over from a friend. I also have the cockerels Father, who does not have the striping in the hackle... but does have some white in his beard. I need to sell half of this flock because I just do not have room, so I can't keep both the boys.  :-\

John W Blehm

  • Administrator
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1670
    • Fowl Stuff
Re: Question for the experts re: Wheatens ;)
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2018, 01:08:37 PM »
I very much like this young cockerel, but am unsure about the saddle feather color extending into the tail? Should I not consider him for breeding? Genetically will he produce this or worse? Thanks in advance!

I've always considered this off-color in the male's tails as a real problem.  I understand reddish shafting is allowed, but I remember seeing LF wheaten/blue wheaten males at our National Meets and pointing out the brown/red color extending into the tails that the owners didn't notice.  I would shy away from breeding from such birds.  I don't have proof or genetic data to point to on this, but besides it not fitting the written Standard I believe it may lead to other problems with feather colors...maybe in the female offspring. 
We've talked before about the possibility of the male's striping reflecting blacker tailed females, but maybe these males with red in their tails produce females lacking in nice black tails.  Some of this just isn't known for sure, but needs to be considered.  Many experienced breeders of differnent breeds and varieties will tell you that the feather color and structure of one sex will affect the color and structure of the opposite sex.  This doesn't have to be the same area on the different sexes either.  It could be the breast color of the female affecting the back or tail color of the male. 
Keep good records.  Start with chick phenotype.  Identify/mark chicks of different phenotypes and see how they mature...what did the parents look like.  Keep photos to refer back to.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 01:12:27 PM by John W Blehm »