Author Topic: Buff and Wheaten Cross?  (Read 506 times)

Cesar Villegas

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Buff and Wheaten Cross?
« on: November 19, 2018, 12:19:52 PM »
Does anyone have any info on a Buff and Wheaten Cross? Has anyone done this cross? If so what was the results of an F1 breeding.

I know their both wheaten base. But I cant figure out the differences in color genetics. What turns Buff from wheaten color to Buff color?

I couldnt find anything in the forum history.

Any help would be great


-CJ

« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 02:06:08 PM by Cesar Villegas »

John W Blehm

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Re: Buff and Wheaten Cross?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2018, 01:35:18 PM »
I've made those crosses in both LF and bantams.  With many varieties the poultry geneticists think they know the genes needed to make them, but the recipe isn't compete for buff...they just don't know.  When asked about buff/wheaten outcrossing I've suggested only doing it to improve a buff line, since you would only be adding the genes to turn wheaten to buff (for the most part).  I believe it would be a lot of work going the other way and trying to breed out the "buff" genes (whatever they are) to end up with wheaten.
In LF Wayne created wheatens and I created buffs.  One was not used originally to create the other, although outcrosses have taken place since. 
In bantams Mike created wheaten and he and I created buffs.  Mike did use wheaten to start his line of buffs (I used white) and we crossed our two lines back and forth for several years to perfect the variety.   

I found a couple topics to study...

I've outcrossed with wheaten a couple/few years ago to make improvements.  Years ago I did an outcross with black and gave up on it.  I'm doing it again this year.  The blacks just have so much going for them that the buffs could benefit from.  Of course this outcross isn't a quick fix.

If there are two wheaten E-locus genes I believe our wheaten variety should be based on recessive wheaten (ey) and our buff variety on dominant wheaten (eWh).

Mike Gilbert

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Re: Buff and Wheaten Cross?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2018, 01:36:13 PM »
Buff has unknown melanin restrictors and can be variable as to exact genotype.   For example, some lines of buff carry dominant white, which restricts melanin but has little effect on pheomelanin.   You will know if you have dominant white if you get white in the tail or wings when there would normally be black peppering or worse.  I don't see much possibility of improving wheaten or blue wheaten coloring by crossing with buff.  Or is it buff you would be trying to improve?   
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11-13

Cesar Villegas

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Re: Buff and Wheaten Cross?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2018, 02:03:15 PM »
I figured it out on the genetics calculator. It looked like a nightmare breeding the F1's back to Wheaten. Im not going to even try.

I have a chance to get 3 pair of Buff Bantam here in AZ. They got them as chicks from you John. They're just pets right now, (I guess their kids lost interest in chickens.) I want to try to get them going in Arizona. I have Wheatens right now.

When i saw the picture of one of the cocks, I was impressed by the comb and muffs/beard. And thought they could improve my wheatens muffs and comb.


Thanks for the input.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 02:06:50 PM by Cesar Villegas »

Cesar Villegas

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Re: Buff and Wheaten Cross?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2018, 02:10:48 PM »
Buff has unknown melanin restrictors and can be variable as to exact genotype.   For example, some lines of buff carry dominant white, which restricts melanin but has little effect on pheomelanin.   You will know if you have dominant white if you get white in the tail or wings when there would normally be black peppering or worse.  I don't see much possibility of improving wheaten or blue wheaten coloring by crossing with buff.  Or is it buff you would be trying to improve?

Mike, I was trying to improve the muffs/beard and comb on my wheatens. Since I have a chance to get some Buffs locally, who seem to have really nice muffs and combs, I thought for shoots and giggles if they could help my wheatens.

I attached a picture of one of the buffs on my latest post.

John W Blehm

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Re: Buff and Wheaten Cross?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2018, 02:27:03 PM »
I think the combs on bantam buffs are hard to beat.   ;)

Even though crossing buff/wheaten to improve wheaten may be a time consuming project it should be possible.  I can't thnk of any sex-linked genes involved that they don't already share, so it shouldn't matter whether you use a buff male over wheaten female or wheaten male over buff female.  Maybe go both ways and cross the two lines the next year.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 03:19:10 PM by John W Blehm »

Suki

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Re: Buff and Wheaten Cross?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2019, 09:13:44 AM »
When i saw the picture of one of the cocks, I was impressed by the comb and muffs/beard. And thought they could improve my wheatens muffs and comb.

Nice bird Cesar, this is what you bought right?  As for Buff genetics look to Danne Honour's book on the subject.  His buff leghorns (he calls them "golden") are outstanding.

http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/Buff-Coloration.pdf

Sue