Author Topic: Article on Treating for Parasites  (Read 94 times)

Mike Gilbert

  • Lifetime Member
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1398
    • Red Stag Acres
Article on Treating for Parasites
« on: September 01, 2019, 09:35:10 PM »
I think many of you will find this interesting reading.    Especially if you are currently using Frontline, aka Fipronil.     

https://www.tillysnest.com/2017/08/frontline-chickens/?fbclid=IwAR0cUNmbFzEPkivgWUY8YBoNQ9OLBDYd9Z2b9zLQHmTlHl7lXYcgloOIYGQ
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11-13

Tailfeathers

  • College
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
  • Breeder & Exhibitor of WBS Ameraucanas since 2008
Re: Article on Treating for Parasites
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2019, 02:30:53 AM »
Pretty good article.  I may have read this same thing before or one very much like it.,  Doesn't change my mind.  She mentions one scientist says you'd have to eat eggs every day.  I wish I'd kept whatever it was that I saw back when I first got the idea for using Fipronil because it was written by some scientist who broke down the amount of Fipronil that would make it to the egg and how many eggs you'd have to eat daily to get a certain amount.  I don't recall now how many it was but I'm all but positive it was a whole lot more than most folks ever eat in one day.

I don't know what percentage of a cc is in 4-5 drops of Fipronil, which is what I give, but I imagine it's gotta be a fraction of a cc.  In fact, I'd guess I probably got more on my fingers treating all the chickens than I'd get eating eggs. I've never given Fipronil orally.  Always on the body.  I would guess that the amount winding up in an egg is higher if given orally than absorbed by the body and in the fatty tissue.  I knew about it being stored in the fatty tissue which is one reason why I may not have had to treat the birds but the one time.  Worrying about how much I might ingest from treating the birds reminds me of what the CPC told me when I called them and said I just ate a bunch of eggs from birds that were treated with Piperazine-17.

My guess is that I'm in a lot more danger from all the processed frozen foods I nuke for supper.  Just my thoughts.  All that said, thanks for posting the article.  It's ALWAYS good to be informed and give folks the opportunity to consider the info & do more research if they feel so inclined.

She asks why use Fipronil and my answer is because I never again want to battle mites for 3yrs.  It would be interesting to see what she would say about pour on Ivermectin. 
God Bless,

R. E. Van Blaricome
Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God, and all His Righteousness
- then these things shall be added unto you (Matt. 6:33)

John W Blehm

  • Administrator
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1833
    • Fowl Stuff
Re: Article on Treating for Parasites
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2019, 08:50:21 AM »
Education on these subjects is needed to make the decision whether to use it on your chickens or not.  Some of the information online is conflicting though.
Peter Brown, of 1st State Vet Supply, sells Frontline but recommends it be used only on exhibition birds...not for meat or eggs.

Frontline Plus is a topical solution that collects in the oils of the skin and in the hair follicles.   It is not absorbed into the body and does not circulate through the blood stream. Through the process of translocation, it is spread over the body in about 24 hours. The effects of fipronil and (S)-methoprene last about 30 days and remain effective after bathing or swimming though shampooing should be avoided within 48 hours of application.

Another site claims a "minute amount" ends up in the blood stream.

Fipronil, marketed under the brand name Frontline, doesn't work primarily by entering the bloodstream, although a minute amount does end up there. Instead, it settles in the animal's sebaceous glands beneath his skin. Once in the glands, Fipronil slowly releases onto the surface of the skin. When fleas come in contact with it, Fipronil disrupts the insect's central nervous system, causing hyperactivity before they succumb..While test samples showed fipronil did appear in the animal's blood, feces and urine, less than 1 percent of the dose was absorbed into the body after 24 hours..
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 08:52:58 AM by John W Blehm »

Tailfeathers

  • College
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
  • Breeder & Exhibitor of WBS Ameraucanas since 2008
Re: Article on Treating for Parasites
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2019, 06:14:47 AM »
I agree, John.  SO much conflicting info out there.  Most of what I've seen to date is pretty much the same as the two you quoted below.  In fact the first one sounds to my recollection to be exactly what I read.  I imagine if folks really wanted to dig they could get to the full truth.  Meh?  I'm content with thinking that even if some of it gets into the eggs it's such a minute amount as to be insignificant.
God Bless,

R. E. Van Blaricome
Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God, and all His Righteousness
- then these things shall be added unto you (Matt. 6:33)

Mike Gilbert

  • Lifetime Member
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1398
    • Red Stag Acres
Re: Article on Treating for Parasites
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2019, 12:52:16 PM »
I do have some Fipronil in a spray can and use it for my dog.    What is the best way to apply it to chickens and bantams?   How much of the skin has to have some applied?   I have heard that getting it into the vent can cause temporary or permanent sterility in roosters.   Is that correct or an old wives tale?
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11-13

John W Blehm

  • Administrator
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1833
    • Fowl Stuff
Re: Article on Treating for Parasites
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2019, 01:46:32 PM »
I do have some Fipronil in a spray can and use it for my dog.    What is the best way to apply it to chickens and bantams?   How much of the skin has to have some applied?   I have heard that getting it into the vent can cause temporary or permanent sterility in roosters.   Is that correct or an old wives tale?

In the instructions Peter Brown sent he said to use an eyedropper apply Frontline on chickens.  You have to move feathers out of the way so it is applied directly to the skin and can be absorbed.  I think he suggested two drops per bantam and 3 per large fowl.  I suggest applying it on their hackles so they can't get at, but I don't think the location is important other than that since it covers all the skin thru "translocation".
I have no clue about it causing sterility and can't imagine anyone applying it that close to the vent.  I assume males only expel thru their vents.  I know that females expel waste, but they also take in semen thru their vents.  I've applied Frontline below vents, but not close enough for the liquid to flow in or enter.

Mike Gilbert

  • Lifetime Member
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1398
    • Red Stag Acres
Re: Article on Treating for Parasites
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2019, 06:27:12 PM »
John, I expect those that had trouble with infertility probably were using a spray applied to the vent area where mites tend to congregate.   I didn't even know you could get it in a bottle - my can of spray came from Walmart in the pet aisle. 
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11-13

John W Blehm

  • Administrator
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1833
    • Fowl Stuff
Re: Article on Treating for Parasites
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2019, 08:54:19 PM »
It may only come in the plastic spray bottle, but I've poured it into small glass bottles with eyedroppers to use.  Also remember to wear latex gloves and it is easier with two people working together.  ;)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 03:06:31 PM by John W Blehm »

Michelle Muldowney-Stevens

  • Associate
  • ***
  • Posts: 61
Re: Article on Treating for Parasites
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2019, 12:09:31 AM »
Pretty good article.  I may have read this same thing before or one very much like it.,  Doesn't change my mind.  She mentions one scientist says you'd have to eat eggs every day.  I wish I'd kept whatever it was that I saw back when I first got the idea for using Fipronil because it was written by some scientist who broke down the amount of Fipronil that would make it to the egg and how many eggs you'd have to eat daily to get a certain amount.  I don't recall now how many it was but I'm all but positive it was a whole lot more than most folks ever eat in one day.

This thread regarding fipronil on BYC is one of the things I've read and has breakdowns from a scientist (BodhiRoc) starting on page 4. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/frontline.465712/page-4

Tailfeathers

  • College
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
  • Breeder & Exhibitor of WBS Ameraucanas since 2008
Re: Article on Treating for Parasites
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2019, 05:31:23 PM »
Mike, I knew a guy who would spray the backside of his birds as he pulled them outta the pet carriers after coming home from a show. As I recall it was just a couple 2-3 squirts.  If I remember right one of the articles on this thread said the Fipronil is absorbed by the skin AND feathers.  Not sure how feathers absorb it but if that's the case then the spray I reckon would work.

FWIW, I don't actually use Frontline but rather the knockoff brand at Walmart.  Forget the name, but that doesn't really matter, just look at the percentage of Fipronil and get the same. You'll save 10-20 bucks.  I buy the box that has plastic tubes you snip the end off of.  Get the dosage for the biggest dogs. It's the same price as the small dogs.  I give the birds what amounts to about 3-4 drops about an inch up from the vent.  And maybe an additional drop or two at the back of the neck if the infestation is really bad.

And here's a little tidbit that might be helpful.  If you have too many birds to do at one time you can pull the wing out and pluck the feathers from the triangular flap of skin on the right or left side and put the drops in there.  Then hold the wing shut for a few moments and it's absorbed.  Just make sure you use the same wing on all the birds.  Then when you come back the next night you can quickly tell if you've treated that bird or not.

As a reminder, I only had to do this once about 10yrs ago after battling the Northern Fowl "Super Mite" for 3yrs.,  One treatment of Fipronil finallly wiped them all out and I didn't have to treat again.  No followup was necessary.
God Bless,

R. E. Van Blaricome
Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God, and all His Righteousness
- then these things shall be added unto you (Matt. 6:33)