Author Topic: Which gene will be dominant?  (Read 1777 times)

Pedro Nunes Marques

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Which gene will be dominant?
« on: February 09, 2022, 07:27:26 AM »


I have doubts about which gene will be dominant in crosses, I made a graph to facilitate my understanding, I hope you can understand

I thank the help of all you

John W Blehm

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Re: Which gene will be dominant?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2022, 01:56:22 PM »
I think I understand the two brothers and sister, on the top of the chart, you assume are full siblings, because you label them as "INBREED".  If these are from my egg there is a possibility some are half siblings and a rare chance some are full siblings.  Wen those eggs were collected there were many chickens in the coop, since they weren't setup for breeding yet. 
I think you plan to create two lines/strains by crossing two different males from my eggs over the female from someone else.  Than you want to cross a F1 male offspring from one of those lines over a female from my eggs to create a 3rd line.  That is my understanding after studying your chart.
My only concern would be that I have no idea of the breeding behind this females you have from someone else.  Do you have photos so we can evaluate her to some extent?  What are your questions?

Pedro Nunes Marques

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Re: Which gene will be dominant?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2022, 03:17:42 PM »
Yes John, you got it right
In the graphic There are 3 brothers, two males and a female that are from her eggs.

The female that came from the other breeder looks a lot like hers, which are the ones I have for now.

If I have some hatches from the last eggs it will be great but I prefer to work with the ones I have on hand.

What I want to make sure is that if I cross the two brothers with this different female I will have two different bloodlines?

And if I cross a son of that lineage with a female that came from you, will I have a third lineage?

In the photo there is a male that is one of yours and a female that came from another, they were born at the same time.

Thanks!!

John W Blehm

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Re: Which gene will be dominant?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2022, 07:20:46 PM »
What I want to make sure is that if I cross the two brothers with this different female I will have two different bloodlines?

And if I cross a son of that lineage with a female that came from you, will I have a third lineage?

I believe you are on the right track to creating two or three different lines using the birds you have available.  I would continue with your plan.
I have heard many times that people don't want to breed chickens together, fearing they are too closely related.  Some have bought a box of 25 chicks from me of some variety and want to know where they can buy more of that same variety from another source, for fear of inbreeding.  I feel their concerns aren't justified.  Even if you start out with just one pair of a variety, you can create multiple lines from them so that within a couple years of so you will be able to line breed without inbreeding.  Breed the original pair together, even if they are full siblings.  They cross the father over the daughters and sons over the mother the second year.  You then have two closely related lines that when crossed won't involve any sibling matings or parent to offspring matings.  Unless you have a very large flock mating I suggest keeping at least two lines of every variety you breed. 

Pedro Nunes Marques

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Re: Which gene will be dominant?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2022, 11:26:02 AM »
Thanks John!!
I'll do that, I'm a good student.

Mike Gilbert

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Re: Which gene will be dominant?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2022, 10:45:02 AM »
Pedro, is this pair the only ones you have to breed?    I don't like the looks of the female's beak.   Too much curvature, almost what we call a parrot beak.  This could lead to more of the same and even crossed beaks in future offspring if you line breed back to her.   I would first mate these two, then develop two or more lines from their offspring and the original male, being careful all the while to select for breeders only those with well shaped beaks.    Concentrated line breeding can bring out the best features - but also the worst features.   The female does have better coloring, so I would use her, but only for the first year mating.    Just another opinion. 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 11:10:19 AM by Mike Gilbert »
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11-13

Pedro Nunes Marques

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Re: Which gene will be dominant?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2022, 11:39:03 AM »
Thanks Johm, I have one more female, but she is the male's sister, looks good to me. The idea would be to cross her with this female's son there to have another blood, you know? as I posted in the graph accumulates.

John W Blehm

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Re: Which gene will be dominant?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2022, 11:58:49 AM »
Thanks Johm, I have one more female, but she is the male's sister, looks good to me. The idea would be to cross her with this female's son there to have another blood, you know? as I posted in the graph accumulates.

With the large flock mating the eggs that came from me were from, I would not assume any of the the chicks you hatched were siblings.  You say some are brothers and brother & sister, but I don't know how you can know that.
Look at the photo in this post: http://ameraucanaalliance.org/forum/index.php?topic=1473.msg9530#msg9530
Those were the parents of the chicks you hatched.  They came from three different matings, so with so many cockerels and pullets from different matings I think the odds are against any of the few chicks you hatched, from the 36 eggs, being either half or full siblings.

Pedro Nunes Marques

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Re: Which gene will be dominant?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2022, 12:09:10 PM »
John, I'm looking for a laboratory that does DNA testing to see if the chickens are brothers, because they all came from your eggs but as you said they could be from other chickens I think it would be good for me to check.

From (01 to 05) are brothers who came from your lot. (A) came from another breeder.

See what you think.

Pedro Nunes Marques

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Re: Which gene will be dominant?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2022, 12:14:36 PM »
thanks! john, the 36 eggs that arrived here last week, I think we lost them. a crash and the sounds are in the brooder, but they all had the air bag unglued, it was a problem at the post office.
At the moment I have only 4 males and a female that came from you last year and another female that came from our American breeder.

John W Blehm

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Re: Which gene will be dominant?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2022, 02:11:01 PM »
I still say you shouldn't be concerned if some are half or full siblings.  I heard from several fanciers that get hangup on that, but if you use the breeding program I outlined in "reply 3", above, you can develop different lines from the birds you have.
The "A" pullet has very dark shanks/legs.  That may be good, but they are so dark that I would be concerned that she may be "split" for ER.  As I've mentioned before, buff chicks should hatch with flesh legs.  If they hatch with dark legs I recommend you only use them to breed from if you have no better ones to use.  Some of the ones from me that have Polish ancestry could also still carry ER.

Mike Gilbert

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Re: Which gene will be dominant?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2022, 04:51:59 PM »
For whatever it's worth, cockerel #03 would be my first choice as a breeder.  He doesn't have any white in his plumage, and the small crest is easy to lose in future generations.  Plus his type looks good to me, although he should be just a bit longer in the body
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11-13

Pedro Nunes Marques

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Re: Which gene will be dominant?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2022, 06:49:05 PM »
Thanks John, I'll do as you instructed.

Pedro Nunes Marques

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Re: Which gene will be dominant?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2022, 06:53:22 PM »
Thanks Professor Mike, I'll use it too, it's the biggest of all chickens.