Author Topic: Genetic Testing  (Read 1249 times)

Mike Gilbert

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Genetic Testing
« on: April 04, 2022, 02:16:07 PM »

How many of you breeders out there would be interested in having your birds genetically tested for various color genes? The e-locus genes are most important of course, and even some of those can be split without showing up in a bird's general appearance. What about E versus ER? Or eWh versus e*y? Columbian (Co)? Melanotic (Ml)? Recessive melanotic (ml)? What about all the different genes that can be in a Buff chicken? Right now the company only does poultry genetic testing for various diseases and for the O (blue egg) gene, but is looking at venturing into the area of plumage color genetic testing. I had a call from their CEO this morning asking for advice. The O gene test based on a feather sample cost $25 per sample - I would imagine the others would be priced similarly but I'm not sure. Your thoughts?
Mike Gilbert
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Kalin McClure

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Re: Genetic Testing
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2022, 07:11:05 PM »
I think this could be hugely beneficial for buffs and I’d be interested.  I wonder if pricing would run ~$25 per gene or per sample?  I personally wouldn’t balk at paying $25-50 per sample for multiple genes tested, but it could get pretty pricey if it was priced per test.

Mike Gilbert

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Re: Genetic Testing
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2022, 07:55:28 PM »
The company is looking into it.  I furnished them a lengthy list of genes that I think people would pay to have tested for.   It's still up in the air as to what they will end up providing, if anything, and it will be interesting to see the pricing if they do offer some tests.  I would expect the e-locus genes would be available before much of anything else.
Mike Gilbert
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Rebecca G Howie

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Re: Genetic Testing
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2022, 01:34:44 PM »
Michael, thanks for looking into this!

I would have some tested.

Mike Gilbert

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Re: Genetic Testing
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2022, 02:07:03 PM »
I had a phone call from the IQGenetics CEO, and he said his technical team would be looking into it.   Waiting for a response now.
Mike Gilbert
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Dennis Heltzel

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Re: Genetic Testing
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2023, 07:22:33 AM »
I have been working with one of the scientists at IQ Bird Testing in FL to test their lavender gene test, which they hope to release soon. I have a lot of breeds with the lavender color variant. I sent him samples of several different birds, including lavender Ameraucanas. I was surprised when he told me that none showed positive for the gene identified as lavender by the genetic scientist. He sent me copies of some (rather dense) papers, and while I don't understand all the details, there is a diffferent gene, called "grey" in the literature that might be the gene we use to make lavender birds. I am sending him samples of all the other breeds that I have with lavender, notably bantam cochins and ameraucanas. My original lavenders, bantam and large fowl, came from John Blehm.

I wanted to ask here where the original lavender gene in Ameraucanas came from?  Lavender Orpingtons?  My history and memory don't go back far enough to say what the origins of this gene might be in our present populations. It is an interesting questions about where these genes originated. I have always assumed the BBS came from Blue Andalusians, since it is sometimes referred to as Andalusian Blue, but I have no idea of where lavender originated. I recall as a kid seeing Porclein D'uccles at fairs and shows, but I doubt that gene arose from them.

I hope that the geneticists and biochemists can sort out the different dilution genes. It is fascinating to see a bit of that, and even participate in some way. I did tell him that this "lavender" is very prevalent in chicken breeds and that they will want to test for this as well. I asked, but have not heard back, whether this "grey" is an allele to the "true" lavender. That would make it a bit easier, but in any case, I only see a genetic test for lavender to be useful it it could ID all the possible dilution genes that could produce a lavender phenotype in our birds.

John W Blehm

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Re: Genetic Testing
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2023, 08:57:30 AM »
Dennis,

Michael used lavender Old English Game and I used lavender d'Anver to bring in the lavender gene/color... 
I also started developing large fowl lavenders, in 2005, using the bantams crossed to large fowl black Ameraucanas.

Harry Shaffer developed his own line of them, after he heard I was working on them.

Quote from: Harry Shaffer, June 2016
Created my own pure strain of Lavender Ameraucna LF, Araucana LF, and Orpington LF.  May have been the first from a pair of birds I bought in Indiana between 2005 or 2006.  They were neither Orpingtons or Araucanas but were considered EE's at the time.  Created from a lavender male and a black split female that layed green eggs.

It is the lavender gene that produces our lavender Ameraucana bantam and large fowl varieties. The proof is in the results as it is a recessive gene that dilutes both black and red feathers and also seems to to be linked to the so-called ‘tail shredder’ gene.

Wikipedia, Lavender_(chicken_plumage)
Quote from:
The lavender gene was first discovered in the Porcelain variety of Belgian Bearded d'Uccle bantams in 1972,[5] and verified in 1980.[1]
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 08:12:01 PM by John W Blehm »

Mike Gilbert

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Re: Genetic Testing
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2023, 06:17:59 PM »
The lavender gene was known in the U.K. long before it was recognized in this country.   And probably in Europe as well.   Lavender U.K. bantam Araucana were developed from South American birds salvaged from a Chilean freighter that was shipwrecked in the Inner Hebrides which are located off the west coast of Scotland - in the 1930's.  George Malcolm was the man credited with their development in the 1940's.  He used Belgian bantams to bring in the lav gene.   Most of this information is available on page 4 of our 1982 Handbook, which is available under the Archives link on our website.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 03:43:49 PM by Mike Gilbert »
Mike Gilbert
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Dennis Heltzel

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Re: Genetic Testing
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2023, 09:56:50 PM »

The lavender gene was known in the U.K. long before it was recognized in this country.   And probably in Europe as well.   Lavender U.K. Araucanas were developed from South American birds salvaged from a Chilean freighter that was shipwrecked in the Inner Hebrides which are located off the west coast of Scotland - in the 1930's.  George Malcolm was the man credited with their development.  This information is available on page 4 of our 1982 Handbook, which is available under the Archives link on our website.

I read that page and it talks about muffed, bearded, tailed and blue eggs, but nothing in the Inner Hebrides account talks about feather color. I am certainly not doubting your recollection, but it would be most interesting if the lavender gene originated in that ship wreck, especially given how long it has taken the standards groups to accept the color into the standard.

John W Blehm

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Re: Genetic Testing
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2023, 10:58:33 PM »
The lavender gene has been around since at least the early 1900s. The mutation may have occurred in Europe or maybe even Asia. The gene wasn't identified until probably 1971, since it was written about and named "lavender" by poultry geneticists JA Brumbaugh, G Chatterjee and WF Hollander in their paper/article Adendritic melanocytes: a mutation in linkage group II of the fowl, published in January 1972. They used the porcelain variety of Belgian Bearded d'Uccle bantams (referred to as porcelain Mille Fleur in the paper) in their study that first identified the lavender gene.

Dennis Heltzel

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Re: Genetic Testing
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2023, 04:27:06 PM »
The lavender gene has been around since at least the early 1900s. The mutation may have occurred in Europe or maybe even Asia. The gene wasn't identified until probably 1971, since it was written about and named "lavender" by poultry geneticists JA Brumbaugh, G Chatterjee and WF Hollander in their paper/article Adendritic melanocytes: a mutation in linkage group II of the fowl, published in January 1972. They used the porcelain variety of Belgian Bearded d'Uccle bantams (referred to as porcelain Mille Fleur in the paper) in their study that first identified the lavender gene.

Thanks John!  If I can find a porcelain d'Uccle that would be the best "test" of their test, if that comes back negative for lavender, they are almost certainly going after the wrong allele. Samples went off yesterday, I am very curious if the bantams in my pens have a different lavender allele than the LF. I never imagined they would find differences and it certainly is possible the test is not right. I did explain that this allele, that they call "grey" is a necessary part of the test, or they have nothing to offer breeders. I made up a "use case" to explain that. If there are in fact, 2 different genes/allele causing the same dilution effect, their test would be of great interest if they can ID both genes/alleles, then we can determine which allele we have in our flocks and maybe link that to other factors, making one better or worse than the other.