Author Topic: Bantam Red Ameraucanas  (Read 4216 times)

John W Blehm

  • Lifetime Member
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 2189
    • Ameraucana Chickens
Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« on: January 17, 2016, 03:27:02 PM »
I was going thru old files and came across a photo Jim Tuckwood sent to me about 10 years ago of his red bantams.  I posted it on the forum for him back then and thought I'd repost it for those that hadn't seen it...and it seems like someone asked about them a while ago.

Russ Blair

  • Lifetime Member
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 942
Re: Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2016, 03:46:09 PM »
I am not a big fan of solid Red Birds. But I will admit the Rhode Island Red looks good dressed as an  Ameraucana. Do you know what ever happened with them? Looks like he had them close to being dialed in? Shame to see someone's hard work and perseverance just vanish.
S.E. Michigan

John W Blehm

  • Lifetime Member
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 2189
    • Ameraucana Chickens
Re: Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2016, 04:18:06 PM »
Jim may still have them.  He hasn't been in the club for a while, but was an early member when we where the Ameraucana Bantam Club.

Mike Gilbert

  • Lifetime Member
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1770
    • Red Stag Acres
Re: Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2016, 05:46:02 PM »
I have not heard from or seen Jim for many years, and he only lived a few hours south of me.  He was into raising goats last I heard.
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11-13

Cesar Villegas

  • Associate
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
Re: Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2016, 12:58:44 AM »
How would one going to getting AMs to look like that? I was eyeing this project until I relocated. But might start it in the near future.

From what i read, Rhode Island Reds are eWh or eb base. I could be wrong, but thats what I read

http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=91291


So Im assuming a wheaten AM would have to be used. If i wanted to make it look like a Rhode Island Red. I would  breed to a Rose comb Rhode Island Red, cause that eliminates the recessive single comb gene. But I would be hesitate due to the recessive yellow skin gene. A red orpington doesnt have the Rhode Island Red color either, unless the columbian gene is introduced (my opinion)

I also considered the Buckeye since they already have the peacomb gene and also to me, they resemble the Ameraucana type.  But I dont think its the same red color pattern as Rhode Island Reds. But does a Red Ameraucana have to have the Rhode Island Red color type?
If you see the picture attached add muffs/beards and some slate legs and thats a pretty good looking Ameruacana lol..

To start help speed things along. I would use a Wheaten rooster over a buckeye hen. This creates sexlink slate legged pullets and white legged males (blue slate legs is sexlink). Once here I have no clue how else to proceed hahaha..

I also considered using some slate legged quail/columbian patter EEs which seems to be the most common color among EEs (shown below)

Again Buckeye or (RC)Rhode Island Red or Red Orpington?

This is what Ive come up with, please correct me if there is a better way :)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 01:40:22 AM by Cesar Villegas »

Tailfeathers

  • College
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
  • Breeder & Exhibitor of WBS Ameraucanas since 2008
Re: Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2016, 03:08:13 AM »
Thanks John.  Any idea what he used to get them?

As I mentioned in the previous post, I hope to be able to cross my Wheatens with my Buckeyes and Mahogany Russian Orloffs just to see what happens.

Cesar, the RIR and Buckeye are pretty much the same color.  And btw, the Buckeye has the gray slate bar.
God Bless,

R. E. Van Blaricome
Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God, and all His Righteousness
- then these things shall be added unto you (Matt. 6:33)

Cesar Villegas

  • Associate
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
Re: Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2016, 04:33:48 AM »
And btw, the Buckeye has the gray slate bar.

Gray slate bar? I dont know what that is?

Mike Gilbert

  • Lifetime Member
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1770
    • Red Stag Acres
Re: Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2016, 08:47:58 AM »
It's a bar of slate undercolor on the back.  It is what I look for in wheaten and blue wheaten females.   Since there is no "standard" for a red Ameraucana, you could make them any way you wish, in any shade of color you like.    But may I suggest networking with another breeder?   John and I did that with several varieties of bantams, and we were able to help each other out with a key bird from time to time. 
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11-13

Cesar Villegas

  • Associate
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
Re: Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2016, 09:16:38 AM »
Thanks John.  Any idea what he used to get them?

I hope to be able to cross my Wheatens with my Buckeyes and Mahogany Russian Orloffs just to see what happens.

\

Use a wheaten male over buckeye and Mahogony Russian orloffs to start. That will give you blue slate leg pullets and white legged cockerels. That should help single out male and females quicker

Suki

  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 930
Re: Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2016, 02:21:30 PM »
I'm not sure I understand why you would use Wheaten for a Red Ameraucana?

Cesar Villegas

  • Associate
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
Re: Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2016, 03:18:54 PM »
I'm not sure I understand why you would use Wheaten for a Red Ameraucana?


From what I know, Rhode Island reds and Buckeyes both are Wheaten (eWH) at the extension gene. The Extension gene is responsible for controlling black pigment.

John W Blehm

  • Lifetime Member
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 2189
    • Ameraucana Chickens
Re: Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2016, 04:47:17 PM »
I'm not sure I understand why you would use Wheaten for a Red Ameraucana?

http://kippenjungle.nl/basisEN.htm#kipkleurEN
Quote
Wheaten is the most suitable allele for red expression and the least suitable for black expression.
This is why our wheaten and buff varieties are based on wheaten (eWh)

Johnny Parks

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9
Re: Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2022, 05:14:02 PM »
I know this is an older post but I'm curious whether Cesar or Royce attempted a Red Project?  I've spoken with Jim Tuckwood three different times about how he created his version of Black Tailed Red Ameraucana.  He no longer has any of the stock he created as he sold out of chickens and now only raises goats.
He said he started by crossing White Ameraucana bantams with South Carolina Rhode Island Red bantams.  He said he never really got the good mahogany coloring in his project Reds until he made crosses using South Carolina Rhode Island Red bantams to Buff Ameraucana bantams. But after accomplishing good mahogany coloring with beards, muffs, slate legs, blue eggs he was never satisfied with their feathering.  I started speaking to Jim about how the Rhode Island Red bantam chicks feather in slowly and are not a fast feathering bird.  He said that's exactly what he was experiencing in his project red birds....slow feathering.  Mike shared that the slow feathering is sex linked and that Black Tailed Reds can be created for fast feathering depending on how Ameraucana males are crossed with Rhode Island Red females.
Just curious if Cesar or Royce started a Red project? If so, which mahogany birds were used in a Red Ameraucana project and has breeding for avoiding slow feathering been considered?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 05:24:25 PM by Johnny Parks »

Mike Gilbert

  • Lifetime Member
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1770
    • Red Stag Acres
Re: Bantam Red Ameraucanas
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2022, 09:06:44 AM »
I
Just curious if Cesar or Royce started a Red project? If so, which mahogany birds were used in a Red Ameraucana project and has breeding for avoiding slow feathering been considered? 

I'm pretty sure Royce was making Reds using Buckeye's.  Not sure which way he went with them though.  Maybe he will see your post and respond?
I did not know Jim Tuckwood was even still alive.  I've not seen or talked with him for many years.   If you have contact info, would you send it to me in an email?   It is Chantecler7@gmail.com .   Thanks Johnny.


Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11-13