Author Topic: Worming  (Read 406 times)

Schroeder

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Worming
« on: August 12, 2017, 09:11:26 AM »
I've never settled into a comfortable deworming routine, so I searched though old threads determined to do it right.  I know I can't go wrong following Mike's advice:

I use the cattle strength pour on Ivermectin and use an eye dropper to put a few drops on the bare skin above and below the vent.  There is also bare skin at the end of the pin bones if you push the feathers aside.  I hold the bird between my knees upside down with the feet pointing away from me.   With a little practice it works very well.
 

For Mike, do you apply every spring and fall, or is your timing based more on breeding cycles?   Do you follow up with a second application 18 to 21 days after the first?  Do you discard the eggs for some days afterwards, or are you not concerned about the possibility of any residuals in the eggs you eat? Are you treating separately for mites?

Sorry for the elementary questions, but the more I read on the topic the more confused I become. 

Do others have routines you follow, perhaps with other treatments, that you prefer?
Duane


Mike Gilbert

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Re: Worming
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2017, 11:56:19 AM »
I don't treat them until I discover mites, and yes, ivermectin does work for mites - at least the ones that show up here.   There is always an exception:   when I sell birds I treat them before they go just as a preventative;  I don't want anyone thinking my birds brought lice or mites to their flock.    Since there is a residual effect, I don't follow up with another treatment.  It works by far the best to do the entire flock, even if mites are on just one or a few of them.  I have never worried about eating the eggs since there would be such a small amount in any given egg.   Ivermectin has been used to treat eye worm in humans in third world countries, and it probably has been used in humans for other things - but I never investigated that.   So far I haven't grown horns and my skin has not turned green.   And I've been cancer free for over ten years.  And probably worm free as well since I sometimes get the stuff on my hands while I'm working with it.  I rinse it off as soon as possible of course, but it is absorbed through the skin.   
Edited to say:   I have not seen a mite on my birds so far in 2017 - none.  And I do check often.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 12:01:10 PM by Mike Gilbert »
Mike Gilbert
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Tailfeathers

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Re: Worming
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2017, 10:46:15 PM »
We still need that "Thumbs Up" button!  I agree and would echo Mike's comments.  I don't treat for mites or lice unless I start seeing them.  Then everybody gets a treatment.  For worms, to be honest, I usually don't even think about it until I start seeing some in the droppings.  That said, when I do remember, I'll sometimes treat once before they go in the breeding pens and once in the Fall.  I use Piperazine-17 in the water for worms.  A LOT cheaper than Ivermectin.  Though Ivermectin does have the dual purpose to it.

I've also got a big plastic garbage can out by the coop of Permagard DE and I'll put a flour sifter full of that into about 10gal or so of feed a few times a year.  I've been seeing a lot of folks recently say that DE doesn't do anything.  I can personally attest that it does.  Not only on chickens but I really noticed it when I mixed up a batch of canned catfood and dogfood and fed it to mine.  Made 'em pass round worms the very next day if I remember right.  And, whereas that's not why I did it, I can personally attest to the fact that DE will give your innards a good scrubbing!  LOL

Oh, and if you've never used DE, be absolutely sure to read up on it.  Get the wrong stuff and it's deadly.
God Bless,

R. E. Van Blaricome
Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God, and all His Righteousness
- then these things shall be added unto you (Matt. 6:33)

Russ Blair

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Re: Worming
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 12:01:59 PM »
I would just like to also share my method which is like Mikes with a twist. First off I swear by ivermectin, I have found a generic brand by durvet that is 1/4 the cost. It has the same active ingredients to a tee. This spring I accidently bought Eprinex, there was little differance in the look of the bottle (which is how I accidently grabbed it). What I found is there was a huge differance in effectifness though. The Eprinex didn't have the knock down effect ivermectin has, I dosed birds twice within a week and they still had mites. Since most of my pens don't stop wild birds from entering (2x4 welded wire) I treat twice a year. I like to treat all my breeders in early spring/late winter prior to breeding season. I then treat all my birds late summer/early fall after my final cull and before show season. This way seems to cut down the cost and time since I only treat the birds I am keeping.Here's the little twist, during grow out I will also treat my young birds with Wazine 17. I try to treat them twice within a two week period. Now I also spray my coops twice a year as well. Usually the same time I treat with the ivermectin. I use a fruit tree oil spray containing Pyrethrin mixed in a pump spray applicator. Like Mike I always treat any bird I plan on selling just for my piece of mind. I don't usually ever find mites on my pullets or hens it is usually the cockerels and cocks since they don't dust themselves like the ladies  ;)
S.E. Michigan

Schroeder

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Re: Worming
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2017, 08:02:09 AM »
Thanks guys.  This is the information I was hoping for.  I'm still not clear about the dual purpose aspect of Ivermectin.  Royce and Russ comment about sometimes using either Piperazine-17, or Wazine 17.  Is that solely because Ivermectin is more expensive or do you doubt its effectiveness on worms?

Russ Blair

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Re: Worming
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2017, 06:39:26 PM »
I personally use Wazine while I am growing them out for one reason. I try to raise 500+ and the cost not to mention time it would take to treat each individual bird with ivermectin is not economical or worth the time. At this age I have rarely noticed any external parasites and am more concerned with the internal ones that might hinder the growth. So it's just easier to add Wazin to the water and hit them all for internal parasites, not to mention why invest more money in culls?. Once I get them down to a 100 I can justify treating with ivermectin lol.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 06:43:56 PM by Russ Blair »
S.E. Michigan

Tailfeathers

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Re: Worming
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2017, 09:32:07 PM »
I can only echo Russ' comment.  I should also say that years ago when I had the mite infestation I fought for 2-3yr I used the Eprinex because there was no withdrawal time on the eggs and the application method was easier.  Now, as I said before, I'm absolutely sold on Fipronil for mites/lice and Piperazine-17 (same as Wazine but cheaper) for worms when needed.
God Bless,

R. E. Van Blaricome
Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God, and all His Righteousness
- then these things shall be added unto you (Matt. 6:33)

Alyssa Kim

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Re: Worming
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2018, 12:07:08 AM »
Hey guys!

Just like to say say that I treat mites and lice with permethrin spray, it's safe affordable, EFFECTIVE, easy to use (if your weather isn't freezing), labeled for use in chickens and requires NO withdrawal time for eggs, and has residual effectiveness. Plus the benefit of working for mosquitoes and other pests as well. Scaly leg mites and depluming mites (which are also microscopic) however are both systemic feeders and will be more properly treated with the Ivermectin. Regarding egg withdrawal, here is one resource I have, hope it's are helpful. Though I already know it realy isn't regarding Ivermectin.
http://www.farad.org/publications/digests/122015EggResidue.pdf



As far as worming goes... the ONLY worms that will ever be seen in droppings are round worms and tape worms. All others will stay in the intestines and ONLY pass microscopic eggs, that you will never see.

That being said, Many wormers won't treat all worms. Unless you KNOW you have a specific issue... treating on routine without confirmation, especially if using the same thing over and over, is simply helping what parasites MIGHT be their build resistance to said drug.

Sorry I didn't use as many smiley faces as possible, I'm still adjusting to this new forum and can barely see what any of them are. Please know I mean this as respectful, friendly, helpful, and informational sharing of my experience. Best wishes to all who read!

I used to just worm my dogs when I saw one come in and scoot their bum. I never wormed chickens in the past 8 years because I didn't know you need to until recently. I don't believe in treating for what I don't have and maybe not treating what I do have.

So I suggest getting a fecal float and making sure to use the right medication... IF you even need to. It cost $25 at my vet which is a bit, but compared to losing out on eggs and the hardship worming places on the birds.. maybe worth it on occasion. I also just bought my own microscope to run samples since I have so many animals! I do flock samples, herd samples, and pack samples... meaning multiple samples from each species combined into a single float (of their own species). It will pay for itself quickly!

Recently saw one of my dogs scooting and have one pullet with muddy bum (which people swear is worms). Decided to vet test for parasites and both came back clean, meaning negative. No need to treat.

Regarding DE as a wormer it is complete hogwash. It is rendered useless when it becomes wet as the intestines are. And also is very soft and ground down when going through the gizzard where harder rocks stay to grind stuff. Studies conducted on cattle (according to wiki article on DE) showed no significant difference in worm load from those treated with DE as wormer. Seeing roundworms after feeding DE doesn't necessarily mean it worked. It could just mean you have a heavy worm load. DE, by the way is approved as an ingredient in animal/chicken feed at a rate of up to 2% as an anti caking agent. Many feeds have it, none tout worming benefits.

Suki Paolini

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Re: Worming
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2018, 09:12:51 PM »
Hello Alyssa


I'm glad you mentioned peremythrin as I just happened across a container I bought last year and couldn't remember why Harry Shaffer recommended it.  He swears by it as well.


Thanks for the reminder, Sue


Tailfeathers

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Re: Worming
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2018, 11:24:57 PM »
Alyssa, I don't know if you get the dreaded "super mite" down there but your environment is very similar to here in WA so you might.  If you do, I wouldn't waste my time with Permethrin.  If you do a search on here for mites or permethrin you should find a post I made several years ago where I talk about my 3yr battle with mites after bring them home from a show.  The short of it is that I'm absolutely convinced the mites become resistant to it.  I haven't had mites since I finally completely eradicated them in a very short period of time with Fipronil.  I've only had to use that once since and it was for lice a couple years ago that somehow found their way onto my birds.  Again, complete eradication with one treatment and no followup required.

Also, regarding DE, I can personally testify that it is effective on round worms.  I started with the Red Lake but now use the Permaguard.  I've seen first-hand the results and dumping it into their food to give it a good coating.  It was like the next day or two that I started seeing all kinds of round worms being passed in their droppings.  I also use it in their sandbox (during the few months it's not actually raining here!) for external parasites.  And I can personally testify that it will give your innards a mighty good scrubbing. 
God Bless,

R. E. Van Blaricome
Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God, and all His Righteousness
- then these things shall be added unto you (Matt. 6:33)