Author Topic: Advise from the experts  (Read 284 times)

Russ Blair

  • Administrator
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 719
Advise from the experts
« on: March 12, 2018, 12:33:38 PM »
Ok so I have always loved the looks of crele, I know the beauty is in the eye of the beholder lol. Anyway I know I am not getting any younger so I am planning to start a Crele Bantam Ameraucana project. Unfortunately my genetic knowledge is limited and I usually learn from trial and error. I have decided to use old English Bantams to get my color and am not sure if I should cross them on Wheaten or black? Or am I already setting my self up for failure using the old English? I have black and Wheaten thatís why I figured crossbreeding to one or both of them varieties. So I am asking for any input that might help me out, I know it will be at least 5 years before I even get close. Also I am thinking Male OE over Ameraucana hens for the first cross keeping just female offspring to cross back to OE the second generation. Then I should be able to breed them together and start breeding for type and color. Am on thinking this right or doubling back to OE going to give me a bunch of game birds?
S.E. Michigan

Dennis Heltzel

  • Associate
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
Re: Advise from the experts
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2018, 01:14:39 PM »
I think you should use a wild-type chick down breed, like a silver. silver females with crele OE roo will give you 100% gold crele pullets and single barred silver crele cockerels. The cockerels will carry gold as well as a single gene for barring. Crossing F1's will give you a whole range of F2's. Pic out the double barred cockerels and the barred pullets for future breeding.

John W Blehm

  • Administrator
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1623
    • Fowl Stuff
Re: Advise from the experts
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2018, 01:15:20 PM »
According to BANTAM CHICKENS, by Fred P. Jeffrey, on page 174 crele is based on wildtype (e+), gold (s+) and sex-linked barring (B).  The barring would affect the shank color some, but it doesn't bring in yellow/willow so I don't see it as a show stopper.
Use a couple of the best crele males you can find over the typiest silver Ameraucana females you can get. Try to set up at least two matings.  The F1 pullets will be pure for gold, as you want, and the cockerels will be split for silver/gold.  Cross F1 males from mating A to females from mating B and the other way around also.  Keep the best from F2 and keep going forward.

(updated: As I was typing Dennis posted, so much of what I said is what he already said)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 01:55:34 PM by John W Blehm »

Russ Blair

  • Administrator
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 719
Re: Advise from the experts
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 02:03:42 PM »
Awesome this is exactly why I asked lol. I would of been breeding for years with no success the way I was heading  :o thanks
S.E. Michigan

John W Blehm

  • Administrator
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1623
    • Fowl Stuff
Re: Advise from the experts
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 03:52:55 PM »
After more thought on it as I was working at home here today I have another idea. 
The E-locus genes are the ones that determine the primary color/pattern and normally when you bring in a new color/pattern (aka variety) you would want to use cross breed it with an Ameraucana with the same E-locus to get you to your goal quicker. 
The problem I see is that bantam silver Ameraucanas are the furthest from good Ameraucana breed type of all the varieties.  Even though I said use the typist ones you can find I feel cross breeding with bantam crele OEG will never get you close to the "type" you want, without outcrosses later on.  It may be just as quick to use the wheaten Ameraucana cross you mentioned.  Even though it is a different E-locus it is gold based, so you don't have to deal with split silver/gold cockerels.  If you go this route still hatch from 2 or more matings, but use Ameraucana males over OEG females with mating/pen A and OEG males over Ameraucana females with mating B.  The next year mate the A Ks over the B Ps and the B Ks over the A Ps.  Hatch as many as you can and play the odds.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 12:54:36 PM by John W Blehm »

Mike Gilbert

  • Lifetime Member
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1193
    • Red Stag Acres
Re: Advise from the experts
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2018, 05:52:00 PM »
Russ, I don't think you will be able to get true slate legs with sex linked barring involved.   Several have tried to get barred Ameraucanas and failed.   To me, it would not be worth the effort.
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11,12

Russ Blair

  • Administrator
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 719
Re: Advise from the experts
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2018, 08:43:59 PM »
That is my biggest fear Mike, I know Jerry Segler was close on some of his Lavender cuckoo but last I saw he hadn't hatched any with solid slate? Perhaps I should E Mail him and see if he has made any progress in the legs. Which is doubtful between his health issues and building his cabin in Minnesota? Thanks as well John, I was very fearful on combs having to use Silvers seeing as that's there biggest downfall. Geez I have so many great ideas now I need to really think this through  :-\
S.E. Michigan

Suki

  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 753
Re: Advise from the experts
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2018, 08:54:37 PM »
I agree with the crele.  i think it's a beauty.  I brought it up somewhere and was knocked back on the legs, I'm glad to see that information was partial and it can be done.  Best of luck.

Dennis Heltzel

  • Associate
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
Re: Advise from the experts
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2018, 03:08:17 PM »
Also, Crele, properly done, is autosexing. An autosexing Ameraucana would be a hit in the backyard chicken trade. Like a winter hardy Legbar, maybe with an improved disposition.

John W Blehm

  • Administrator
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1623
    • Fowl Stuff
Re: Advise from the experts
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2018, 06:43:31 PM »
Life is short...if that is what you want then do it.  :)