Ameraucana Forum
The Official Ameraucana Forum => Breeding => Topic started by: Harry Shaffer on April 06, 2016, 10:35:10 am
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I looked at my APA from 1998 unless they changed the standard the beard should be pronounced but I have noticed a lot of birds being posted on Facebook have a beard that looks like a shovel head effect. Is this the new norm?
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Harry, could you explain what you mean by the "shovel head" look? The Standard has not changed to the best of my knowledge, though you never can tell with the APA since they are so error prone. It calls for full, well rounded, three lobes, and medium length. Oversized and undersized, according to that definition, is to be avoided. Could you put up a photo of what you consider shovel head, or post a link to one?
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Mike, the beard has no distiction from the muffs, there are no three parts. Looks like a shovel instead of three lobes.
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Got it. Thanks Harry. Yes, I have seen quite a few with that look, especially among bantams.
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This is Broken Toe ~ BW Am. I like his muffs and beard. Reading the standard, is hard for me to visualize. Being an Artist, I do better with photos.
Was hatched 5June15 and the photos are from a few months ago. (
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Coming from a Belgian d'Uccle background, am very picky about the type of muffs and beards my birds have.
I wanted to post a large photo of Broken Toe, so its easier to see, but was not able to.
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Yes the size restrictions are tough and it's rare that I can meet them myself. I have found www.picresize.com pretty good, but far better is just using either www.photobucket.com or www.flickr.com and then pasting in the url that way you also get a full album and can post via your phone like instagram.
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Am pretty much old school with photos.... a computer and a real camera. No phone sadly.
I can change the sizing of my photos with Photoshop, but even having the photo at 72 129x 200 pixels... still too large.
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http://ameraucanaalliance.org/forum/index.php?topic=4.0
"The maximum size of an attachment is 128kB, with up to 6 per post and a total limit of 512kB per post."
You'll see some photos are pretty big and still within the limit. ;)
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I have tried to add photos at 128kb, but it won't let me. Could only get a very small, low res photo up.
Let me try again.
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White AM bantam hen.
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Still to small to see any detail, at least with my old eyes.
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Mike, the beard has no distiction from the muffs, there are no three parts. Looks like a shovel instead of three lobes.
ALL of my birds are like this, not a single one with muffs/beard that form three distinct lobes. And just when I thought my head obsession was over, heh. ::)
Does anyone have picture(s) of what I should be aiming for? Thanks.
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Greenleaf, your white hen is what I would like in all my hens. The silver male may be the angle but looks like the shovel/spade look that seems to be taking over.
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I have tried to add photos at 128kb, but it won't let me. Could only get a very small, low res photo up.
Let me try again.
I am pretty good with PhotoShop and have had same problem, a bit frustrating
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Are you talking about the lower part of the beard being more pointed Harry???
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Stan, I am talking about there is no longer 3 distincts lobes on the muffs and beards. Looks like a shovel the metal part. Like a hollow effect
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The varieties with beard colors that contrast with the neck feathers have a big advantage. Male silvers, wheatens, blue wheatens especially. The beard stands out visually, even if it does not form a perfectly shaped lobe.
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Flash gave her red eye, but this is one of my Blue Wheaten Ams. Average beard?
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Nice eye color! I've not seen the color beard or on the head like that. Do you have a pic of the whole bird?
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:) Thanks Greenleaf for the pictures, that white hen is a beauty.
The varieties with beard colors that contrast with the neck feathers have a big advantage. Male silvers, wheatens, blue wheatens especially. The beard stands out visually, even if it does not form a perfectly shaped lobe.
I agree Mike. I especially love the contrast on silver males. So pretty!
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r192/Lees-Pics/IMG_0670.jpg) (http://s144.photobucket.com/user/Lees-Pics/media/IMG_0670.jpg.html)
Shari, what a lovely head your hen has! :)
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Thank you Tailfeathers and Lee. Lee, that contrast on your rooster is stunning.
I don't have the best photos of them.... but here is what I do have.
In the photo with the green grass, can see their beards are starting to get plucked out. Drives me silly when they do that.
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Very nice shape on that blue wheaten rooster in the photo. Do you remember the original source of this line?
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Thank you. His beard was once much, much fuller than it is now. Hens like to groom him . :P He is in my avatar, managed to get a good photo of him, before his beard was thinned out.
Yes, he is from Kat's line. She is over in MD.
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Not sure who Kat is. Is she a member here?
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Not sure.
Its hard to get good stock into this State and she was the most close I could find with the type of Am's I wanted.
I love her Blue Wheatens.
http://www.signaturefeathers.com/chickens
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Yes the size restrictions are tough and it's rare that I can meet them myself. I have found www.picresize.com pretty good, but far better is just using either www.photobucket.com or www.flickr.com and then pasting in the url that way you also get a full album and can post via your phone like instagram.
I don't think I have ever been able to successfully post a picture directly to either this forum or the old one, I go through Photobucket as well, works great and takes less time than manipulating a photo trying to make it fit.
Not sure who Kat is. Is she a member here?
Kathleen "Peachick" LaDue. I don't believe she's a member of either club and, according to her website, doesn't show her birds but has quite a following on BYC for her turquoise eggs. He is a good looking bird, and from the pictures on her website she seems to be getting nice beard color in the males as well.
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Thank you Beth.
Kat's BW Am's are really nice all away around. They do go broody though, so it makes it a little tough to build up numbers.
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My wheaten pullet, supposedly from Kat's line, lays small white eggs. I suppose they are a little blue, but very much lighter than my BBS Ams and my Legbars. I think they were just inbred too much over time to try to keep the name on the line of birds. I'm thinking of culling or selling them because they are so disappointing to me. The vigor of that line compared with the chicks I got from John is just night and day. I hate having to "baby" my birds just to keep them going and tend to lose patience rapidly with birds that don't thrive under my care.
I appreciate the value of the SOP and the physical characteristics of a breed, but vigor, productiveness and personality are just as important to me. For example, no mean roo will ever stay in my pens, even if he would be a show champion. My resources are too limited to waste on a bird I just don't like.
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My wheaten pullet, supposedly from Kat's line, lays small white eggs. I suppose they are a little blue, but very much lighter than my BBS Ams and my Legbars. I think they were just inbred too much over time to try to keep the name on the line of birds. I'm thinking of culling or selling them because they are so disappointing to me. The vigor of that line compared with the chicks I got from John is just night and day. I hate having to "baby" my birds just to keep them going and tend to lose patience rapidly with birds that don't thrive under my care.
I appreciate the value of the SOP and the physical characteristics of a breed, but vigor, productiveness and personality are just as important to me. For example, no mean roo will ever stay in my pens, even if he would be a show champion. My resources are too limited to waste on a bird I just don't like.
It is quite common to hear of LF wheatens that lay very light to white eggs and I haven't heard of a line that has truly overcome that reputation yet. I've made many outcrosses between varieties, especially over the past several years, and believe that is the best way to make the needed changes...using blacks as the standard. I'm not big on bringing in "new blood" for fear of breeding too close, but sometimes new genes are needed that can be borrowed from another variety without crossbreeding. We've heard about building the barn before painting it many times, yet many continue repainting instead of first taking the time to fix the foundation.
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The best way to improve egg color is to set only the best colored eggs to hatch, and save only roosters to breed from that are out of those nicely colored eggs. The problem may be something so simple as the O gene being present in only the hetero condition (one gene instead of the two needed). if that is the case it is pretty easily overcome within a closed flock.
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The best way to improve egg color is to set only the best colored eggs to hatch, and save only roosters to breed from that are out of those nicely colored eggs. The problem may be something so simple as the O gene being present in only the hetero condition (one gene instead of the two needed). if that is the case it is pretty easily overcome within a closed flock.
Another problem could be that they carry a brown eggshell color inhibitor gene (pr) that could produce a true blue egg that can look washed out without brown tint. Many fanciers prefer more turquoise eggs and some brown tint is required. If that is the case the breeder needs to try to breed out the recessive inhibitor gene thru severe selection and maybe test mating. If it is prominent and outcross would help.
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The pr gene is a sex linked recessive according to Sellers. I was under the understanding that it prevented brown in the eggshell, but did not affect blue. But maybe more recent studies have shown otherwise. If so, I would like to see the report(s). Also, I had read years ago that pr has a detrimental affect on a hens health and/or egg production, but maybe that has been updated as well? "Science" is always coming up with new information that contradicts the old.
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I was under the understanding that it prevented brown in the eggshell, but did not affect blue.
That's my understanding also.
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Did you get them directly from Kat? Or someone with Kat's stock? Because everyone I know that has Kat's stock, bought directly from her, have the same colored eggs as I do.
Mine, lay medium/Large eggs.
The 3 deepest Blue eggs, are from Kat's birds. The 3 lighter blue eggs are from my Legbars.
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The 3 deepest Blue eggs, are from Kat's birds.
Very nice.
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I got them from Larkrise (BYC name) and found out later from a reliable source that they originated from Kat's line. I bought eggs and they were much better colored than the eggs from my pullet that hatched from them. Recently her egg color has gotten better and now seems to be very close to my Legbars (which have awesome egg colors, but many of their crests are poor). At least I think they are her eggs, she is in a pen of pullets I am holding to breed from and I thought I pulled all the Legbars from there, but the other breed in there (Welbars) looks a lot like a legbar with no crest, just a subtle shade of color off.
A friend really wants my Wheaten pullet and I'm on the fence about whether to sell her or setup a breeding pen and see if her eggs are more fertile now. Smart money says I'll keep her because it's hard to resist the temptation to try to get some chicks from her. I just need to build a few more breeding pens . . .
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Ah, so you got them from someone that had some of Kat's line. So, that person's breeding is what caused the light eggs, not Kat.
The birds I have now, are directly from Kat's hatching eggs. Once I start breeding and raising them, they will be my line, as I make the choices on who to breed to whom.
Would be like blaming Paul or John, for poor Quality birds.... even though the original person that bought their stock, had been raising them for awhile and made bad choices. So everyone would think, the poor egg color or what ever, is directly from Paul or John's stock, when it wasn't the case at all.
Is my take on it.
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The 3 deepest Blue eggs, are from Kat's birds.
Very nice.
Thank you John. Am quite happy with them.