Criss cross sickle feathers???

Lee G · April 17, 2016, 01:43:20 PM

My 2015 silver male with the messy tail has developed crossing sickle feathers, and I have to say it is as ugly looking as it sounds.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Because I've never seen its like before, not in my flock (until now) and not anywhere else either...I can't help but wonder if I should save myself future heartache and just cull him now....or could it possibly be an injury? Dietary? Or even epigenetics? He was broody raised on grass from hatch, and is healthy, active (and fertile) otherwise.

Mike Gilbert · April 17, 2016, 03:15:39 PM

Was he feather-picked in the tail as a chick growing up? If so, that could explain it. Otherwise it must be genetic.

Lee G · April 22, 2016, 12:03:23 AM

No, not as a chick...but he did go a few rounds with another cockerel in the bachelor pen a month or so ago. Perhaps that could have caused it. Though his tail was already growing in 'messy' for lack of a better word. Sigh...my gut instinct is its probably genetic. Since I have a clutch of eggs from him due soon, I might just grow the offspring out and see what else can be learned, if anything. Will update as I go. Thank you Mike.

Suki · April 22, 2016, 10:46:10 AM

Lee, do you have a pic of him

Didn't know epigenetic btw.

http://www.whatisepigenetics.com/fundamentals/

Lee G · April 22, 2016, 04:41:46 PM

Not very attractive is it. $:-\$

I discovered epigenetics when I was trying to understand why some of my import birds were showing traits none of their parents or grandparents had. Amazing really the effect different climates and diets can have on gene expression.

Suki · April 22, 2016, 10:06:31 PM

No, unfortunately it isn't, but I've seen that before. I don't remember where or when but it does look familiar. Maybe I'll remember another time. Humidity got me today.

Well I'm glad you did run into epi-g. Rather interesting.

John W Blehm · April 22, 2016, 10:41:57 PM

Epigenetics is interesting, but even its definition has evolved just in recent years to narrow it down to what it is today. Yes, environment can affect genes, but it doesn't change them (the DNA). Scientists still don't know everything there is to know about genes and they know much less about epigenetics. Just be careful about some claims. If it sounds like hocus pocus it may just be an illusion.

Lee G · April 23, 2016, 01:33:47 PM

Interesting Browneyes...I'd love to hear more when you remember where you've seen it before. My research hasn't turned up much, but maybe I'm not searching in the right places?

Regardless, I'm 99% sure I'm going to cull him now (and likely his offspring too) Just don't want to take the chance of more tails like this in the future. I absolutely hate it.

(even worse than duck foot, and that's saying a lot! lol)

Quote from: John W Blehm on April 22, 2016, 10:41:57 PM
Epigenetics is interesting, but even its definition has evolved just in recent years to narrow it down to what it is today. Yes, environment can affect genes, but it doesn't change them (the DNA). Scientists still don't know everything there is to know about genes and they know much less about epigenetics. Just be careful about some claims. If it sounds like hocus pocus it may just be an illusion.

True John, you make some very good points. Although I do kinda like the sound of magical chooks!

Suki · April 24, 2016, 12:31:14 PM

I had it with a Light Sussex that I got from Sandhill -- I had to go there as I had no cock birds. One of them had a sprig tail, Clive, and i used him with my girls. It seems to be a sex-linked recessive or at worst incompletely dominant, as none of the hens got the trait and just one male, so I've been working on culling males that are born with it and so far so good.

Lee G · May 01, 2016, 10:43:04 AM

Quote from: Greenleaf on April 24, 2016, 12:31:14 PM
I had it with a Light Sussex that I got from Sandhill -- I had to go there as I had no cock birds. One of them had a sprig tail, Clive, and i used him with my girls. It seems to be a sex-linked recessive or at worst incompletely dominant, as none of the hens got the trait and just one male, so I've been working on culling males that are born with it and so far so good.

Thanks for your insight...the SOP definition for split tail doesn't really fit though, as there is no distinct gap at the base of his tail...but the one for twisted feather may apply. Twisted feather= a feather in which the shaft and web are twisted; a DQ if found in wing primaries or secondaries, maintain or sickle feathers. I think I've found my answer.

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Criss cross sickle feathers???