Interesting feedback. Two quick comments and maybe a helpful bit of info,.
Mike, that's news to me. I've never had bantams and don't have an ABA SOP. I can certainly tell it is MUCH more detailed than the APA, That said, I wonder if their definition of "lacing" is the same as the APA. The brown/red in the tails of the males isn't what I'd call "lacing".
John, I went thru the whole "double-mating" thing with the proposed Barnevelder changes. You bring up a good point and I think it would be worthwhile to see some kind of a debate where both sides bring out their strengths and their weaknesses can be revealed in the cross examination. What are the Pro's and Con's and does anybody really know? I can tell you with certainty that was NOT the case with the Barnevelders. The way the APA handled that was terrible and just downright sad. It became a popularity contest with inputs from folks who never owned a Barnevelder saying things like "That's such a pretty bird."
I'm not sure the "don't breed true" when double-mating is required is correct though,. That said, I don't think it's likely you'll see that kind of inquiry because I honestly don't believe there is one single person dedicated enough to the breeding and perfecting of a breed or variety to do so. I say this not to trash-talk any other breeders but solely because of the numerous comments I got from many when I brought up the yellow-leg gene popping outta my birds. MANY told me, "Don't worry about it. The judges don't care if the yellow is hidden. Just breed what you have and cull the yellow legged birds." IMO, that's just not breeding to perfection or doing the breed/variety justice and that attitude is never gonna provide at atmosphere of continual improvement.
Just as in the case with the project you mentioned, John. The only difference is I knew I had a Fault/DQ. You're absolutely right but if folks aren't gonna take the time and effort to start a project to eliminate a know trait that absolutely should not be how many will do so to experiment with a project as you suggest? I know certain universities have done projects to "experiment" on certain things and great information has been the result. But we don't see much of that and I doubt you'd see such to determine the correlation between two traits as you mentioned and I doubt you'll find a breeder today who would take that on. Had I gotten into the Fancy 30-40yrs ago I probably would have. Now, I just don't have the time nor inclination.
All I can do is pass on what I've learned/experienced in my short decade of working with the WBS. As I mentioned previously, when I started out getting clean, solid colored tails on my males was a focus because as I read the SOP the brown/red in the tails should not be there. (My guess is that the "shafting" shouldn't be either but that's another issue for someone else long after I'm probably planted in the ground and hopefully enjoying my perfect WBS flock on the home the Lord has provided.) Simultaneously with this I was focusing from Day One on getting more color in the girls tails and wings.
Now, keeping those two focus points in mind, I have achieved both of those goals. My male birds tails are solid colored (Most of the time. I cull the occasional that aren't.) and the females all have MUCH more color in their tails and wings. Now, you guys know I'm no rocket scientist but logically that tells me there is no correlation between the red/brown in the tail of males to the tail color in females. If anything it would tell me that eliminating the red/brown helps the color in the females but I doubt that is the case because the color in the tails and wings of the females is increasingly getting better with time. It's not an all at once thing.
Given that there is so much we still don't know about genetics and how genes work with one another I think it may well be that we just never will know. More importantly, given that discovering these things takes a LOT of time and effort coupled with the "want it now" and immediate gratification compulsion to see things happen NOW there isn't likely to be much, if any, reliable information forthcoming. Add to that the lack of others doing the same coupled with the joining together to team up on a "project" and move it forward by sharing info to work together toward the completion of a common goal and I think one can get the picture.
Wrt the first part of that, I'm just as big of a culprit as anyone could be. For example, take any one trait - solid colored tails or beards in the males, better colored tails/wings in the females, etc., looking back now I never really did what I should have. I never really approached my breeding program from the systematic, methodical detailed POV that it should have been. I had objectives and I just went from a breed the best to the best each year. And each year the birds got better somehow but I never really knew WHY!
And, if I had it all to do over again, I'd have kept MUCH better records than I did. For the first 5yrs I kept much better records and devoted a lot more time to the program. Regrettably, I haven't done so the last few. And one thing I never did that I should have was confirm my results. This is what I was getting to above. Had I been smart, the first year I got the solid colored tails (or beards), for example, I would've really analyzed that and set up a mating the following year to test why that happened and confirm the results. I didn't. I should have. I think that's what's needed if we're gonna really move the birds forward. And we can't do it all at once. That's why it would be best if there were 5-6 folks working together on different traits simultaneously. I have to imagine that might've been a consideration in having 5 different flocks for 5yrs in order to be accepted as a new breed/variety.
So, with whatever time I have left, I am just going to continue doing what I've been doing. Breeding the best to the best and moving forward with my goals. Should there be red "lacing" in the tails of the males? I don't know. I do know there won't be in my birds. Spent too many years getting rid of it and from all I've seen thus far I see no reason to have it there. Perhaps it'll be found there's no need for it and somebody can work to get the SOP changed down the road. Or, conversely, it'll be found it needs to be there and all my efforts will have been for naught. Perhaps somebody can take my birds then and do something with what I've done in other areas and get just a little closer to that perfect WBS.
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