Erminette variety

[John W Blehm]

Becky Pelton, from SC, has been working on erminette Ameracuanas for 14 years.

A search on Classroom @ the Coop for “erminette”, a few months ago, brought up this post talking about both the ermine and erminette varieties.
 

“Ermine is the same as the columbian variety, and is found in various European breeds. I would say this pattern was named "Ermine" in Europe before the American breeds were developed, later named "Columbian". Then later again, the main gene responsible for this pattern was identified & named Co - Columbian. These breed true.

There is another variety called "Erminette". This is a totally different pattern, & different genetics. Erminettes are black and white splashed, usually white based, with black splashes all over. The Erminette gene is incompletely dominant, so yes, doesn't breed true.”

F. B. Hutt used the symbol "Er" for the erminette gene (not to be confused with E^R).
Erminette is like dun and blue, in that it doesn't breed true.
Erminette X Erminette = 1/4 black, 1/2 erminette & 1/4 splash erminette chicks.
Erminette X Black = 1/2 erminette & 1/2 black chicks.
Erminette X Splash Erminette = 1/2 erminette & 1/2 splash erminette chicks.
Splash Erminette X Black = 100% Erminette chicks.

I use "splash erminette" to describe the true breeding variety when a chick inherits two copies of the Er gene.  I assume these pure (Er/Er) birds would be mostly white with black spashes, but not nearly as much black as the heterozygous erminette variety. If there is already a name or better name other than splash erminette, please let me know.
The variety with two blue genes (Bl/Bl) is called splash or splash blue.
The variety with two dun genes (I^D/I^D) is called khaki or splash dun.

[Aquil Thomas]

I am really interested in learning more bout this project, and getting involved if I can help. Can someone give me some guidance on the route to take.

[Rebecca G Howie]

Aquil,

There are a few breeders in Missouri working with LF Ermines, Lisa Helms and Michael Muenks, perhaps others.

I am in Arkansas and am working on downsizing to a bantam Ermine variety as is Michael Muenks.

[Stacy Melton]

April,

Becky Pelton has a facebook project page for the Ermine.  Contact her via her farm page DustyBugs Poultry and she can assist you in joining the group.  These breeders are active in the current project, working toward getting the color situated so they can get it recognized in a few years.  They should be able to answer more of your questions and maybe help you locate someone to help you get started in the color project if that is your desire.

Good luck and have fun!   

Stacy

[John W Blehm]

The Erminette, by Curtis Burroughs

Between 1874 (when the first "Erminette" made its appearance) to the 1920's, there was much confusion amongst poultry fanciers concerning the names Erminette and Ermine. Most can vividly recollect the regal robe worn by Royalty which is white with small black markings. This robe is created out of skins of the Ermine (a mammal that belongs to the [weasel] family), which is solid white with a black tipped tail. When making the robe, the Ermine tails are spaced out in an organized way, creating a striking display. The controversy sprang from the fact that two different color patterns derived their name from the same source; the robe worn by Royalty. As a result, there was much confusion about what constituted an Ermine or Erminette, with some individuals and breeders using both names interchangeably when describing one or the other. When one sorts through the history it becomes clear that the Erminette was a color pattern expressing a white bird with random and as evenly spaced black markings as possible and was not a pattern which bred true. The Ermine on the other hand was the same color pattern as the Columbian (or Light in the Brahma, Sussex, and Dorking). In fact, the originator of the Columbian Orpington variety originally coined his new creation the Ermine Orpington as he felt the Columbian name was a fad that would soon fade out and that naming a color variety after the Columbian Fair lacked any depth of meaning as compared to the pattern of the regal robes produced out of the fur the Ermine.

[Mike Gilbert]

In view of the information supplied by John in the preceding post, it may be wise to change the name back to Ermine instead of Erminette.  I'm not sure.   But does anyone know how the other club is progressing with their effort to have the variety recognized as "Paint?"   There may not be two years left to get the job done by us.  In any case, I wonder if the organizers have checked to see if there is an extra fee for getting a new color recognized in addition to the fee for a new variety within the breed.

[Russ Blair]

Mike I was talking to Brian and he mentioned that the APA will not allow them to proceed using the “Ermine” name? Something to do with a breed of chicken from back in the 20’s that had the Ermine wording in its name. I don’t know the logistics and hopefully Becky Pelton can clarify and tell us what the reasoning was. I suggested they all need to contact their APA district directors and start asking the exact reason why the Ermine wording is unacceptable. I think getting as many APA district directors on board is needed in order to pursue calling them Ermine.

[Mike Gilbert]

I found out the APA is not interested in cooperating with the developers when it comes to names during the lavender/self blue issue.   They will do what they are going to do no matter what, and no matter how much logic is behind ideas.  So my advice to Becky is to find out what they want to do as soon as possible and proceed accordingly.  This is one reason I have phased out almost all of my large fowl.  And since the other club is also working on this under a different name yet, we better act quickly. 

[Stan Alder]

     The APA Standard Committee seems to have been very receptive to the petition Becky sent in.. there are a few problems that are being addressed.. first , as mentioned here is the names Erminette, and Ermine can not be used.. the name Ermine is used as a variety name for a breed Ermine Malines, and the Name Erminette was at one time introduced as a bantam of the same breed.. it was suggested that we could bring those names out of retirement and go thru a 5 year process, or rename our new variety something that has not been previously used by any other poultry breed or variety,, Becky has taken suggestions and at least 2 were submitted to the Standard Committee.. she has not heard back as yet.. the other problem is that we were told by the previous APA secretary that it was not necessary to have a year between the prequalifying meets, but once the Standard Committee was put in place, it was decided that the second prequalifying meet would not be accepted because the rules does call for a one year between the 2 prequalifying meets.. Becky is now planning to hold the 2nd prequalifying meet in March at the APA semi Annual meet in Ohio. Also , a few minor discrepancies in the long and short versions of the proposed SOP have been corrected. Once the Standard Committee has signed off on the petition, I am sure Becky will make the complete SOP available.

[Russ Blair]

Thanks for the update Stan, I know you are well involved in this process, and I appreciate you sharing more of the details with us.

[Becky J Pelton]

There is an update in our magazine that was sent out yesterday on thas subject.   I'm trying to keep everyone updated as we stumble through this process.   I was contacted yesterday 9/2/2024 by Paul with the APA Standard Committee.  They are currently discussing several matters that were addressed and corrected per their request.   Again just waiting on a reply.   

[Elijah Ensor]

Checking in to see if there are any current updated on the Erminette/ Ermine variety?  Currently working with LF. 

Thanks.

[Stan Alder]

Just a quick update.. Talked with the chair of the Standard committee yesterday and was informed that there is a conference call expected this week with the ABA to discuss the use of the name Ermine for this variety.. Paul told me that the ABA has the 'rights' to that that name because there is/was a breed named Ermine Malines that was accepted by the ABA.. that name is no longer on the inactive list, so it is expected that we will be able to use the name Ermine for this variety.. I will update when I hear results of that call.. Also we were informed that our prequalifying meet in Sadalia Mo was not accepted because there was not a year between the first prequalifying meet and the Sadalia meet. Because of that it was decided that we will attempt to hold our second prequalifying meet in March at the Moon City show.. That show is also the APA Semi Annual meet, so there should be directors and a lot of judges there to see the birds.. hoping for a good turn out for them.

[Elijah Ensor]

Thanks for the news.