Buff/Black LF outcross

[John W Blehm]

In our spring newsletter, Beth, mentions her buff/black outcross and the progress she is making. 
Last April I mentioned my outcross on a topic about egg color improvement with LF buff.  Three F2 chicks hatched today from that project, of a buff cockerel over an F1 buff/black pullet.  The phenotype of two of the chicks is about what I would expect, but one looks like a real buff chick!  Chances are it'll still have some black feathers as it matures, but this appears to be better progress than I expected.  The two chicks with dark shanks were sold with my other "reject" chicks this afternoon. 

[Cesar Villegas]

So Im assuming that the chick is eWh/eWh? Also why would you expect black feathers? What causes them to get black feathers if they dont have E anymore.

[John W Blehm]

So I'm assuming that the chick is eWh/eWh?

Me too, since the shanks are shanks are starting out flesh colored and the chick's parents are e^Wh/e^Wh and E/e^Wh.  The other two "reject" chicks would be E/e^Wh, like the pullet.

Also why would you expect black feathers?

Both wheaten and buff varieties are based on the wheaten (e^Wh) e-locus down pattern.  Some known along with some unknown genes make an otherwise wheaten colored/pattered bird pure buff.  If any of those genes aren't present in that good looking chick, it could show some black feathers like wheaten chicken normally do.  Black feathers in the wings and tails of wheaten chickens is normal...the genes that turn the bird all buff are special.

[Harry Shaffer]

John, how many years do you think it will take to clean them up?

[John W Blehm]

If this buff looking chick feathers in all buff, then it just took a couple.  I hope to hatch a few dozen this year yet and maybe, just maybe, all the genes will line up.  As you know theory and reality don't always match.

[Cesar Villegas]

John, would this improve shank color on buffs too? Are you expecting darker shanks?

[John W Blehm]

John, would this improve shank color on buffs too? Are you expecting darker shanks?

The shanks on my LF buffs has improved quite a bit over the past few years and overall are were I think they should be.  Remember that wheaten based chicks start with flesh shanks, so dark shanks on a wheaten (the variety) or buff chick is a sign that they are not pure for wheaten (at the e-locus).
In the early years LF buffs only had a hint of slate showing in their shanks.  Crossbreeding with Polish helped darken the shanks.

[Cesar Villegas]

John, would this improve shank color on buffs too? Are you expecting darker shanks?

 Crossbreeding with Polish helped darken the shanks.

Crossbred to polish when? Buffed Laced polish? How long did it take you to get back to the correct type, did the crest linger for a while?

[John W Blehm]

John, would this improve shank color on buffs too? Are you expecting darker shanks?

 Crossbreeding with Polish helped darken the shanks.

Crossbred to polish when? Buffed Laced polish? How long did it take you to get back to the correct type, did the crest linger for a while?

It was at one of the 10,000+ bird APA/ABA joint National Meets in Ohio that the late judge Earl Jones gave me the idea of crossing a buff laced Polish with my buff Ameraucanas to darken the shanks.  He got some LF buff Ameraucanas from me and was going to try the same cross.  Anyway it helped, but that is when stubs started showing up on LF buff Ameraucanas.  The lacing wasn't a problem and the crests were gone by the F2 generation.  The combs took years to get back to look like a good pea comb.  The cross really helped type, since I had originally used buff Orpington pullets to create the variety, Polish helped lose much of the Orpington type and excess fluff.

[Beth Curran]

I'll try to get some pictures, but most of my female F2s are hard to distinguish from plain buff. The only noticeable difference (in both chicks and adults) is some patchy dark horn in their beaks. The males were a pale cream color and were culled. I did get 2 F2 females that were mixed color, out of more than a dozen hatched. No females had the light cream color, only males. I currently have a pure buff male over the solid F2 females and will update once I have some F3s on the ground, but I remember when we discussed this previously you said you thought I would be back to pure buff color in this generation.

[John W Blehm]

...but I remember when we discussed this previously you said you thought I would be back to pure buff color in this generation.

I must have thought the glass was 1/2 full.   In theory I believe you could be, but without hatching lots of chicks and playing the odds it doesn't always happen.