Wheaten X Black bantam Cross

[Spencer]

I crossed a wheaten rooster X black hen this summer. I hatched 10 chicks, 4 girls 6 boys. I saved one girl and sent the rest to a friend to grow out. I went to visit him last night and he sent a cockerel home with me.

I'm trying to figure out (the best I can at this point) the black hen's e locus, I did find out she's S/ from the cross. I purchased her already grown from a breeder who raises blacks and brown reds. These growouts range from solid black, 2 have small amounts of leakage, 2 have a lot of gold (one I brought home), and one hatched out duckwing.

At first I thought a silver egg might have been put under the broody hen when I set the crosses under her, because when the duckwing offspring hatched, it looked to have a somewhat silver down. I brushed it off.. as he grew out he had a lot of red and white in his feathers so I assumed it was a really off colored silver, though I only had 1 silver cockerel this year with red in his shoulders the rest were all very clean.

When my friend sent a picture of this guy it clicked.. he definitely wasnt from my pure silver pen, he had to be from my wheaten x black cage. Does this mean his mother must be split E/eb or E/e+ or possibly Er/eb  or Er/e+ ?? Any thoughts and comments are welcome.

I might have a picture of the chicks down on a harddrive but havent been able to locate it yet. The rest of the chicks seemed to have solid black downs if I remember correctly. Here are a few pics, disreguard lack of wingbay in the wheaten male, I have a problem losing them after molt in my line.

1) dad and daughter I kept
2) mom coming out of molt
3) group of sons
4) boy I brought home
5) boy I brought home

[Spencer]

Duckwing boy

[Michael Muenks]

Which direction are you trying to go? Are you trying to get back to wheaten, to black, or both?

[Spencer]

No major direction I definitely wont use them with my black line. I'll possibly cross the F1 pair I saved, and I might backcross both F1 genders to an unrelated wheaten line I aquired this fall.

The only real reason I even hatched them was because it was the end of the season and they were penned together so I thought Id see what came of them. My main reason for the post is to figure out what e locus the black hen is carrying which caused her to throw a duckwing offspring. Im leaning towards eb or possibly e+ but thought Id get others opinions 👍

[Mike Gilbert]

Quote:   "When my friend sent a picture of this guy it clicked.. he definitely wasnt from my pure silver pen, he had to be from my wheaten x black cage. Does this mean his mother must be split E/eb or E/e+ or possibly Er/eb  or Er/e+ ?? Any thoughts and comments are welcome."

Yes, no doubt.   He is either eb/eWh or e+/eWh.  Since his mother was pure black in color (right?) I would lean toward the former. 

[Spencer]

Awesome, thanks for the verification. Yes shes solid black not as shiney black as my other blacks, a slightly dull black. I didnt know if this could have been due to being based on S/-? 

I plan to cross her with a silver cock to see if I get any pure silver offspring. Not to keep, but to help verify what she is based on. How close does e+/e+ resemble e+/eb on chick down and as grown birds?

[Mike Gilbert]

Since we have no recognized Ameraucana variety based on eb, I'm afraid I can't answer that.   Maybe someone working on a new variety can?   Also, the dull shade of black can not be attributed solely to the S gene, as many winning blacks have been based on S- or SS. 

[Spencer]

Sounds good thanks 👍

On another note, all the male offspring from the cross have very very small combs compared to all my other bantam boys. On some of the ones my friend kept, the comb is nearly as small as combs on the female bantams. I also noticed all their muffs/beards are very small compared to my other bantams. The mother of the cross has a pretty small muff/beard.

Is there some type of gene linkage or restrictor that anyone has ever noticed that greatly reduces the comb as well as the muff/beard at the same time. Ive seen huge muffs/beards on birds with nice small combs, so I know its not a common linkage. But Im curious if anyone has raised a line that had this same connection? Thanks for all the input.

edit** I originally thought the hen might be Mb/mb, I'll test her in spring to be sure she's not, but if she was Mb/mb Id think at least one offspring would be Mb/Mb since the wheaten cock was Mb/Mb. If that was the case it'd have at least one offspring with a larger muff/beard than the other siblings but thats not the case. They all are on the small side.