Question About How the Standard Was Written For Comb

[Steve Neumann]

Lately I have seen a lot of discussion about how Ameraucanas, as a breed, do not have the correct type of pea comb with three prominent serrated rows in the females.  I am curious to hear from the breed founders, while other breeds have very specific descriptions of the morphology of the female pea comb, the Ameraucana standard does not.  The male morphology is clearly described but not the female.  Was there a reason for that?  I'm just curious.

[Mike Gilbert]

You must be referring to the APA Standard, as the ABA Standard is very descriptive for both genders.   That is the one I had a major hand in writing.   The APA Standard was written primarily by the late John Skinner, who was APA Standard Committee chairman at the time, although we did have a chance to offer comments and suggestions.    I don't think the male comb description is all that descriptive in the APA Standard either.   It says nothing about three rows of evenly serrated points as does the ABA Standard.   I think we had learned by that time, about five or six years later, that in order to keep the male comb small, the female comb must be very small.   When it is very small, the serrated points and preferred shape for males tends to disappear in females.  So I do think that is the way they should be bred unless someone intends to double mate, something I refuse to do.    There are enough other, more important issues to deal with in my opinion.  Plus that extra small comb should help withstand extreme cold, as there isn't enough there to freeze. 

I'm wondering too where you are seeing all this discussion?   I don't go to BYC, where misinformation is spread at practically the speed of light and the ignorant tend to get beligerent when they don't agree with something.   

[John W Blehm]

I also refuse to get into double mating and so I believe if you breed for the proper pea combs in the males the females will carry the proper genes also.  There are some characteristics that I look for more in one gender than the other for this reason.  Other examples include paying more attention to the size of male bantams, selecting partridge females with the best penciling and concentrating on pure black mature males.

[Russ Blair]

I have also found that the females with "proper" pea comb tend to produce Male offspring with improper combs. Like John mentioned in another thread, combs do not count for much when showing. So I too prefer a small tight comb on my breeding hens/pullet. One of the many reasons a "show bird" doesn't always make a "breeder"  . With that said I did have a black Bantam hen that had a small pea comb lacking the proper distinct three ridges place very well last National Meet.

[Steve Neumann]

Mike, the thread was one started in the Real Ameraucana FB group run by Susan and Jean.  The topic has been echoing around in other various pages and I just wanted to hear what you guys thought.  To me, a pea comb is PPrr.   I have selected for good combs in the male that are tight to the head and the only thing I select for in the females is that they are small and straight.  The idea of even bothering to select for prominent three rowed pea combs in the females sounds like a trivial concern though it was made out to be some something that Ameraucana breeders need to focus on for breed improvement.  I wasn't seeing it.  I'm glad to hear a different perspective.

[Tailfeathers]

With all the work that needs to be done on almost all the varieties, I'm a bit perplexed as to why anybody would be putting a focus on something that isn't even mentioned in the SOP.  In fact, the Pea Comb isn't even listed under the Deductions section.  So at the very most one is looking at 1/2 to 1 point deduction most likely.

I could be wrong but this seems like something somebody brought up OVER THERE just to have something to talk about.  Reminds me of this quote:

"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools speak because they have to say something" – Plato

Or maybe I'm just jealous because I guess my birds just have way too far to go for me to be worried all that much about what the female combs look like. 

EDITED:  I just realized that my comments above may be taken as there are things too minor to bring up for discussion and I may have inadvertently discouraged or dissuaded others from posting on something here in this Forum.  That was not my desire and I apologize should that be the case.  I'm not a fan of the FB or BYC sites as I have personally experienced far too much misinformation promulgated and discussions had over very minor and trivial issues by far too many who are not true, serious breeders but rather hobbyists who use social media for socializing.  That's what I was trying to relay in my OP.  Had that question been asked on here I would've taken it in a much different way.  I still believe there are many other things that would take priority but would've stated things differently.  Again, my apologies.

[John W Blehm]

I've been reminded a few times about combs not counting for much when a bird is shown, but they have always been very important to me...personal preference.  I believe most of us know the Standard is the last word, but we still have our own ideas about how an Ameraucana should look and it can be seen in the differences in strains bred by different breeders. 
After a quick glance at the entire bird my eye is drawn to it's head and the comb.  I look for a small three ridged pea comb on the males that follows the skull, without an upward turn.  On the females I look for combs so small that they don't attract attention.   That is just me and my preferences. 
In our original 1982 Ameraucana Bantam Handbook, on page 35, Don Cable included in his DEVELOPING HEAD POINTS article...

A relatively wide base is required for proper development of pea comb, especially in males.  We have all seen tall, narrow pea combs with a tendency to lop to one side, but the proper type of pea comb is both described and illustrated in Bantam Standard and there can be no mistake regarding what is desired.  It has been my experience that the small pea comb required on males can be achieved by breeding from females with extremely small combs - so small in fact, that the serrations peculiar to pea comb are barely discernible.

[Mike Gilbert]

There you have it folks - a blast from the past.   Don was the person most responsible for the Ameraucana bantam becoming a recognized breed.   He had a very good head on his shoulders, and I have really missed his participation.   He is in a nursing home now.