Sick birds

[Jensen Pierson]

Hi everyone. I need some advice. I have some sick chickens and I am at my wits end trying to deal with it. About three years ago I noticed my turkeys faces were swollen on the sides, that was just the beginning to the chaos. That whole summer I had birds faces swelling shut, rattling breathing, and sneezing. I ended up culling a lot of my birds and found out my birds have infectious coryza. Now yo years later I am still dealing with it. Mike Gilbert gave me advice on how to fix it by exposing the chicks to it early on. I have been brooding them beside adult bird cages where they can interact through wire and I thought that would solve things. I went out three days ago to feed and one of my 6 week old blue LF chicks started sneezing and I saw his eye starting to get puffy. I pulled him out and gave him a little bit of Tylan medication in his water and he is fine now. My Delma now is I have a pen of 40 ameraucana started birds that are all starting to sneeze and get puffy eyes. I really don't want to have to deal with vaccinating birds. (Which is what I did last year and it got me through the breeding season) I also don't want to be medicating birds that I should be culling. I just got done reading the book John Blehm suggested "Start where you are with what you have" by Ralph Sturgeon and it has really inspired me to fix my birds but I remember him making the comment "while inbreeding can cause the weak to be weaker, if used properly it strengthens the strong. Without this tool,  breeder is unable to establish and hold the desirable characteristics produced through careful manipulation of hereditary factors. 13" I want to think this is an example of the weaker just getting weaker and I just need to cull the sick birds. But if I did that I am afraid I wouldn't have any birds left. At what point do you know when to cull for vigor/disease resistance? Do I keep the ones that naturally get better again?  And interests experiment though I did with my dorking chicks. The 15 raised by my dorking hen all were the first people to get sick at 4 weeks old. A few weeks later only 5 died/were culled and the 10 are 6 weeks old and perfectly healthy. 

[Mike Gilbert]

Jensen, if you stay the course that Sturgeon recommends you will be happy in the long run.   I'm sure he dealt with the very same thing.   The constitutionally vigorous and strong will get better and the weak should be culled.   I would give them two to three weeks at least to show improvement if they are not stressed.  After a few generations you will have resistant strains.   There will always be a few weaklings to cull out, but much fewer than in the early years.   Of course all this presupposes good management, a pretty stress free environment, and a balanced diet.  Folks who show birds and do not vaccinate all go through this sooner or later.  Good luck!   I know you can do it. 

[Jensen Pierson]

Thanks Mike. I needed to hear that. I really think it was a God thing that I got that book. No sooner had I finished it that everything started crashing. I don't want to think the amount of culling (or not culling) I would have done had I not read the book. It made me understand that yes, bad things will happen, not all birds will be perfect, and that its ok to let birds get sick. I had been battling wether or not to vaccinate or not. If it hadn't been for those 15 little dorkings that " accidentally" hatched who showed me they can get sick and get better I would have probably been vaccinating everyone again. Well I just threw my bottle of coryza vaccine in the trash can. Nothing good ever comes easy. I just want to get back to showing, but I see now I would rather have a very hardy bird further away from and standered than a weak one that has everything politically correct with it. Along with the Ameraucanas I have started raising meat chickens on pasture using Joel Salatins chicken tractor method. I have found I am happiest growing animals and raising food without the aid of modern medicine and manufactured chemicals. Why should I treat my Ameraucanas any different? I have even though about taking the growing birds and raising them in the chicken tractors if I can get more built.

[Mike Gilbert]

The tractors are great for raising growing birds, but in our area we have to be on the lookout for those nasty little blood sucking gnats.   When they are bad, usually June and July, they will crawl into the birds ears and bite, sending the birds into shock, and that can kill them.   The natural defense against biting, flying insects is dust.   That is why I like to keep a dusty coop.   The gnats and mosquitoes stop at the door.   

[John W Blehm]

...But if I did that I am afraid I wouldn't have any birds left. At what point do you know when to cull for vigor/disease resistance? Do I keep the ones that naturally get better again?...

This also reminds me of the topic a while back about helping chicks out of the shells when hatching.  Never say never is a good old saying to remember.  Although it generally isn't advisable sometimes a chick is so valuable to you that you help it out.
Some will say not to breed from birds that get sick.  Again, it may be the best method but sometimes that sick bird is the only one with some trait you want and then the rule becomes just don't breed from birds that get sick and don't recover.
Can you imagine if every person that got sick or has a dormant virus never had children?  We would all die off, yet somehow some think that animals should be held to some higher standard.  I still believe that instead of destroying all the birds last year in the facilities that had AI, they should have bred from the survivors.
Mike's comments about stress and dust are good ones for all fanciers to remember.  I've preached about chickens not being waterfowl and how I put roofing over all my outdoor pens last year to help keep them dry.  It helps.  Birds can take some cold weather, but my experience is that the stress of cold and wet together makes the viruses flare up.  Of course there are other ways to put stress on chickens, but by keeping them dry you will cut down on a major stress factor for chickens.   
 

[Tailfeathers]

Many years ago I had a problem like this with CRD (very similar to Coryza) in my Barnevelders and everybody I talked to had a constant problem with sick birds.  I remember reading something, I think it was from Kenny Troiano in the Poultry Press, and reading that coupled with the same frustrations you're experiencing finally moved me to the point of culling every bird except a cockerel and 2 pullets that never showed any sign of sickness.  Plus the disease was spreading to my other breeds including my Ameraucanas.

So, long story short, I stopped ALL medicating.  No more Tylan, various "cyclins", Duragard, or anything else.  If they got sick and got to a point where it looked like they weren't going to recover, they got tossed over the fence for the coyotes.  The only thing I did was put bleach in their water to prevent it from spreading in their water.  I have continued to do so but more to keep the algae/mold from forming in their waterers.  Even that hasn't stopped the algae/mold entirely and they get fresh water everyday!

It was either in 2 or 3yrs that I stopped seeing any sick Barnies.  In the last 5-6yrs I've not had a single Barnevelder get sick.  Last year or the year before i had a couple of Ameraucanas develop bubbly eye and a bit of runny nose.  I immediately put them down and fed 'em to the coyotes.  I've seen nothing since.

[Jensen Pierson]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I will keep it all in mind. Most birds are looking better and a few I may be axing