Silver Spangled Ameraucana Project

[Harry Shaffer]

This is my second year breeding silver spangled ameraucanas and I am making good progress so far.  I had done this with Rumpless tufted Araucanas but gave it up after only producing a trio plus all the lethal genes made it a large mountain to climb.  I was inspired by Dr McGraw who made a similar bird without muffs and beards many years ago but they fell extinct or near impossible to find even one now a days.  Very fun project for myself. 

I have a picture of a cock bird on my face book

[Rebecca G Howie]

Harry,

Looked at the Silver Spangled AM on your FB page and he is stunning. I hope you continue to work on that color!

[Mike Gilbert]

This is my second year breeding silver spangled ameraucanas and I am making good progress so far.  I had done this with Rumpless tufted Araucanas but gave it up after only producing a trio plus all the lethal genes made it a large mountain to climb.  I was inspired by Dr McGraw who made a similar bird without muffs and beards many years ago but they fell extinct or near impossible to find even one now a days.  Very fun project for myself.  I have a picture of a cock bird on my face book

Harry, I assume you used Silver Spangled Hamburgs?   Do you mind sharing what variety of Ameraucana was used?   I'm guessing black or white.   

[Harry Shaffer]

Mike,  Why would I use White or Black it would take a lot more time to produce.  I used a silver Ameraucanas over SS Hamburgs and SS Spitzhaubens.  The problem with that is those two breeds day old chick down is not the same.

[John W Blehm]

How about a photo for those of us not on FB?

[Harry Shaffer]

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/12080012_1706954452857361_5741998641971665374_o.jpg

Looks like it went thru

[John W Blehm]

Looks like very good progress for the 2nd year.  Spangled are E^R based, like birchen with pattern gene and a few others added.

[Harry Shaffer]

I have plenty of chicks but have to wait till they moult out full plumage to make sure they are the right phenotype.

[Mike Gilbert]

Mike,  Why would I use White or Black it would take a lot more time to produce.  I used a silver Ameraucanas over SS Hamburgs and SS Spitzhaubens.  The problem with that is those two breeds day old chick down is not the same.

I don't know about Spitzhaubens, but here is a partial genotype of Silver Spangled as in Hamburgs:   Autosomal genes:  ER/ER, Co/Co, Db/Db, Ml/Ml, pg+/pg+ (lower case pg means it is not present at all), and then the sex linked genes:  S, id+  .    We can never really tell what white is carrying without test mating, but at least it would have a chance of carrying ER, Co, Db, and Ml.   And black could easily be carrying ER and/or Ml.   We know that wild type (as in Silver Ameraucana) has none of these, so you would be pulling just one copy of all these from the Hamburg or Spitzhauben side of the first mating.   Further, they are all dominant genes, and even e>b is dominant over e+.   So you will be dealing with eliminating their recessive counterparts for a substantial period of time.   It's a lot easier to get rid of unwanted dominant genes than unwanted recessive genes.    So that was my reasoning for using the black or white to start with.   But you have a start - good luck with finishing it!

[Harry Shaffer]

Mike,  I just got white chicks this year.  Bought some and some how hatched some out of my lavenders I believe but mine might not have the correct genes.  I will try one of the ones I bought next year maybe.

Mike, you know Dr McGraw had a similar bird without muffs and beards but seems no one capitalized on it and it layed a blue egg.  I am not sure what year he had them but it was many years ago and his son kept them for a while.  I had some but foolishly I got rid of them because  the Ameraucanas were accepted in the APA and his birds did not seem to get any respect which they should have.

[John W Blehm]

...here is a partial genotype of Silver Spangled as in Hamburgs:   Autosomal genes:  ER/ER, Co/Co, Db/Db, Ml/Ml, pg+/pg+ (lower case pg means it is not present at all), and then the sex linked genes:  S, id+...

I think that is a typo from the Seller's site. 
They also say under Genetics of patterns...

Spangling is obtained with Db (dark brown), Ml (melanotic), Pg (pattern gene) on either the E or eb background.

And I believe "eb" is another typo that should be E^R.  Then they also have a table, by Reeder, called Chicken Plumage Patterns that has an "X" to mark Pg as needed.

I believe this is from W. C. Carefoot...

...and demonstrated that of the Silver‐spangled Hamburgh to be homozygous ER, co+, Db, Ml and Pg‐.

From Poultry Genetics...

Spangled ERER PgPg DbDb MlMl Ml - Melanotic

[John W Blehm]

I have plenty of chicks but have to wait till they moult out full plumage to make sure they are the right phenotype.

With silver on both sides of the matings I'm surprised the tail is black...more like a golden spangled phenotype.  Do you think it is possible he is S/s⁺?
Keep us posted on the chicks and if you start getting silver tailed males with spangles. 

[Mike Gilbert]

When I see conflicting information like that from various sources, I really wonder if anybody knows for sure.  A lot has been learned since Carefoot, Hutt, and Jeffrey wrote.   Also, there is more than one type of spangling, e.g., spangled O.E. Game is not the same as Spangled Hamburgs.   Even the spangling in Golden Spangled Hamburgs is different than the spangling in Silver Spangled Hamburgs. as the former has a black tail, while the latter has a spangled tail.   I do believe the S.S. Hamburg spangling is based on ER.

[Mike Gilbert]

Mike,  I just got white chicks this year.  Bought some and some how hatched some out of my lavenders I believe but mine might not have the correct genes.  I will try one of the ones I bought next year maybe.

Mike, you know Dr McGraw had a similar bird without muffs and beards but seems no one capitalized on it and it layed a blue egg.  I am not sure what year he had them but it was many years ago and his son kept them for a while.  I had some but foolishly I got rid of them because  the Ameraucanas were accepted in the APA and his birds did not seem to get any respect which they should have.

I do remember when Dr. McGraw was advertising those birds in Poultry Press.   He was promoting them for an extended period of time, several years.    I don't think he had ear tufts on them did he?   If that is correct it would explain why they didn't get recognition as Araucanas.   And they certainly were not Ameraucanas either.

[Ed Brockman]

I at one time had some of the McGraw birds which came to me from a gentleman in Wisconsin who had procured his original stock from McGraw.
My understanding is that the SS was a result of the use of SS Spitzhauben in the development.  The blue egg was from Araucana.  My birds laid a very nice blue egg with no green tint.  The SS pattern was very good, and there were no black tails.
I had reduced numbers to one breeding trio and lost the rooster to a hawk.  After futile attempts to find a replacement rooster, I moved on to other projects.
If anyone knows Dick Dickerson he may be able to shed some additional light on this, as he was planning to visit with the widow of Dr McGraw at some point this spring I believe.