Author Topic: lavender vs self blue  (Read 19785 times)

Tailfeathers

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2016, 11:47:27 PM »
Michael, I agree that the AA should go forth with putting together a proposal.  Let the ABC put forth theirs and the AA do the same. 

And this is where it will get tricky.  It is pretty likely that the two clubs would NOT put forth the same proposed standard - unless there was some collusion from somebody in both clubs.  Not insinuating anything here whatsoever.  Simply saying that it is VERY unlikely they would both be the same.  Much more likely there would be differences to some varying degree in the description for Type, Color, History, etc.  Just one more thing I see problematic in having a membership in both clubs.

Then both Clubs have their Qualifying Meet, perhaps even simultaneously, and the Club who comes out on top gets their Proposed Standard admitted.

This would also force the Board of Directors to explain why they get to choose the name of the breed instead of the folks making the proposal as is stipulated in the SOP.  It should also diminish or eliminate any perceived biases as was eluded to because one is not a member of the APA or a preference toward one club over the other or anything of such nature.
God Bless,

R. E. Van Blaricome
Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God, and all His Righteousness
- then these things shall be added unto you (Matt. 6:33)

Tailfeathers

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2016, 11:58:25 PM »
Spencer, what you perceived as "clearly pushing" Lavender over Self Blue was not so clear to at least one person.  Yours truly never saw any such thing. 

The additional commentary was just that - commentary.  It provided factual information to consider about the issue and it was clear to me that the purpose of the poll was to obtain the information from the Club members on whether or not there was the support in the Club to move forward with what would be a difficult fight in proposing the standard for admission under the name Lavender.

And frankly, when I'm asked for my opinion, whether by vote or otherwise, I could give two hoots less what somebody else thinks about it.  You ask me, I'm gonna give it to ya.  And if you don't like my reply, you shouldn't have asked.  In other words, even if the email was pushing Lavender (which as I said I do NOT believe was the case), that isn't gonna change my vote if I don't agree with it.

I think I probably made my position clear from one of the FB screenshots I attached with my post on what I see the SOP stating and where the responsibilities for admission lie with each party.
God Bless,

R. E. Van Blaricome
Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God, and all His Righteousness
- then these things shall be added unto you (Matt. 6:33)

Mike Gilbert

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2016, 07:26:55 AM »
We are in the process of compiling an address list to find out which members are willing to help out with affidavits and qualifying meets.   They must be APA members five years, and that is one of the questions being asked.    Russ, you will be among those receiving an email soon.

The address list was compiled yesterday, just in time for the ABC announcement.   So that time was wasted as there is no point in proceeding.  Knowing the bias of the Standard Committee chairman, I had planned to go through the APA Directors and other officers, as I know several of them.   But the ABC threw up an obstacle that would be next to impossible to overcome.   
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11-13

Cesar Villegas

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2016, 08:07:46 AM »
We are in the process of compiling an address list to find out which members are willing to help out with affidavits and qualifying meets.   They must be APA members five years, and that is one of the questions being asked.    Russ, you will be among those receiving an email soon.

The address list was compiled yesterday, just in time for the ABC announcement.   So that time was wasted as there is no point in proceeding.  Knowing the bias of the Standard Committee chairman, I had planned to go through the APA Directors and other officers, as I know several of them.   But the ABC threw up an obstacle that would be next to impossible to overcome.

What obstacle was that?

Mike Gilbert

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2016, 08:18:46 AM »
We are in the process of compiling an address list to find out which members are willing to help out with affidavits and qualifying meets.   They must be APA members five years, and that is one of the questions being asked.    Russ, you will be among those receiving an email soon.

The address list was compiled yesterday, just in time for the ABC announcement.   So that time was wasted as there is no point in proceeding.  Knowing the bias of the Standard Committee chairman, I had planned to go through the APA Directors and other officers, as I know several of them.   But the ABC threw up an obstacle that would be next to impossible to overcome.
What obstacle was that?

Just the fact that the ABC announced they were pursuing self blue as the color, they already had enough affidavits to do it, knowing that the Standard Committee chair was in their camp on the issue.   They undermined our effort to qualify the variety as lavender.  What is really ironic is that there actually is a self blue and it is not lavender. What do you call a blue bird without the lacing and pretty much one shade all over? Granted, this color is not in the Standard, but there are many color varieties not yet in the Standard. So what happens when somebody wants to qualify a REAL self blue for recognition? It's a pretty sad situation.
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11-13

John W Blehm

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2016, 03:58:24 PM »
What is really ironic is that there actually is a self blue and it is not lavender. What do you call a blue bird without the lacing and pretty much one shade all over? Granted, this color is not in the Standard, but there are many color varieties not yet in the Standard. So what happens when somebody wants to qualify a REAL self blue for recognition? It's a pretty sad situation.

REAL self blue is also known as solid blue and non-laced blue.  Click on the "non-laced blue" link for more info.

Harry Shaffer

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2016, 06:56:40 PM »
Over the last three years I have had some blue Orpingtons void of lacing and they were not lavenders.  I should have taken pictures but they were culled for other reasons not their color because I do not breed blues only use them to upgrade my birds for features.  Remember when they crossed black orps to white orps back in the early 1900's they produced blues that were then called self blues.  They only added the lacing because sometime they changed the standard that all blues should look like Blue Andalusians now very few meet that quality in all the breeds for blues.

Suki

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2016, 05:03:41 PM »
Also I am all for unbiased equality.
The email that was sent asking to vote for:

1. lavender
2. self blue
3. dont care

Clearly was pushing members to vote for lavender and not self blue.
I strongly believe unbiased wording would better benefit the club.

Frankly Spencer, I didn't see any bias, but as you did what do you think it should have read that would colour neutral?  But that's besides the point,  if this group went for self blue to make the APA happy couldn't we still get them in ahead of the ABC? or is that now moot?  I would gladly change my vote to "self blue" if the right party could get credit.


Brownie.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 05:41:15 PM by Mike Gilbert »

Russ Blair

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2016, 05:19:01 PM »
Not sure if this is the right spot to post this. But just received my poultry press. I would like to thank Mike Gilbert for his article pertaining to this matter. It was well written and spoke with dignity. Thanks Mike I really enjoyed the read.
S.E. Michigan

Mike Gilbert

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2016, 09:31:33 PM »
Thank you Russ.   I try.   I'm waiting to hear from my Director after he returns home, but I am hearing rumors that our effort fell on deaf ears at the APA Directors meeting in California last weekend. 
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11-13

Cesar Villegas

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2016, 07:15:15 PM »
Thank you Russ.   I try.   I'm waiting to hear from my Director after he returns home, but I am hearing rumors that our effort fell on deaf ears at the APA Directors meeting in California last weekend.

I saw a picture of the director over the weekend.

All that came to mind was the grouchy elderly man yelling "get off my lawn" hahaha

Hopefully the APA can get younger more open minded leadership in the future.

John W Blehm

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2016, 07:34:08 PM »
I saw a picture of the director over the weekend.
All that came to mind was the grouchy elderly man yelling "get off my lawn" hahaha
Hopefully the APA can get younger more open minded leadership in the future.

Hopefully the APA can get...more open minded leadership in the future.  ;D

Mike Gilbert

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2016, 09:42:35 PM »
Bob Vaughn is not the problem.  He is a warm personable human being who is also open minded.   It is most of the other directors I'm concerned about, and an overbearing, arrogant Chairman of the Standards Committee.   
Mike Gilbert
1st John 5:11-13

Tailfeathers

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2016, 10:25:05 PM »
I look forward to seeing the PP article.  I wish I'd have thought of it, and must apologize for not, but had I done so I wudda called my District Director and talked with him before the meeting.  Not sure it wudda done any good as he's kind of a "go along to get along" kinda guy but I'd have tried.  If ya think it might help lemme know and I'll do so now.
God Bless,

R. E. Van Blaricome
Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God, and all His Righteousness
- then these things shall be added unto you (Matt. 6:33)

Cesar Villegas

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Re: lavender vs self blue
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2016, 12:06:50 AM »
I saw a picture of the director over the weekend.
All that came to mind was the grouchy elderly man yelling "get off my lawn" hahaha
Hopefully the APA can get younger more open minded leadership in the future.

Hopefully the APA can get...more open minded leadership in the future.  ;D

Touché John haha  ;)