Recessive/Dominant white & shank color

[Cesar Villegas]

Hi everyone, I was having a debate about shank color with whites. Does recessive or dominant white genes affect shank color? I would think not?

[John W Blehm]

Yes, they do.

http://chickengenetics.edelras.nl/

Plumage Colour Influence:

Diluters of black shank colour:
Blue (Bl/bl), Splash (Bl/Bl), Recessive White (c/c), Mottling (mo/mo), Dominant White (I/I), Gold Dilute (Di/Di), Barring (B/B)

Enhancers of black shank colour:
Extended Black (E/E), Birchen (ER/ER)

[Mike Gilbert]

In talking about shank color a person should consider two parts, the epidermis and the dermis.   Some of the above affect only the epidermis.   It is very possible to get good dark slate shanks on white birds.    Slate is composed of a dark dermis and a more or less clear, transluscent epidermis.   I would be more concerned with factors that dilute or prevent a dark dermis - like sex linked barring. 

From Sellers' Website:
"Dominant white (symbol I) Incompletely dominant.  Influences eye pigment. Inhibits black pigment, eumalanin. This gene is ‘leaky’ and will allow black specks through. Generally not as efficient at producing a solid white bird as are two copies of recessive white. Heterozygotes of dominant white, I/i+ are often grey with the grey color visible in the chick down. Dominant white dilutes, but does not eliminate, epidermal melanin."

Notice it does not say anything about diluting dermal melanin.

[Cesar Villegas]

Isnt what extension gene is being use that also affect leg color. I would think E base whites would have darker shanks than E Wh base whites. Would this have more affect on shank color than recessive or dominant white?

[Mike Gilbert]

Very minor differences in dermis color because of  of e locus genes.   We see both wheatens and buffs with nice slate legs.   Granted, it takes longer to develop, but in the end (maturity) it is there.   Dermis color of adults does not vary much; it is either white or dark.   It is the epidermis that changes color because of modifying genes.

[Cesar Villegas]

Very minor differences in dermis color because of  of e locus genes.   We see both wheatens and buffs with nice slate legs.   Granted, it takes longer to develop, but in the end (maturity) it is there.   Dermis color of adults does not vary much; it is either white or dark.   It is the epidermis that changes color because of modifying genes.

So if there is not much that difference, why do buffs still need work on their shanks? I yet to see one with really good dark slate legs

[Mike Gilbert]

The Standard does not require them to be real dark, just slate.   Do you think this one has shanks that are too light?   It's dark enough for me.

http://ameraucanaalliance.org/photos_files/lfbufff.jpg

[Cesar Villegas]

The Standard does not require them to be real dark, just slate.   Do you think this one has shanks that are too light?   It's dark enough for me.

http://ameraucanaalliance.org/photos_files/lfbufff.jpg

Thats probably the darkest shanks Ive seen on a buff !

[Mike Gilbert]

How about this one?    These are the photos in our picture section of this website.    Whose buff strains are you seeing out west?

http://ameraucanaalliance.org/photos_files/lfbuffm.jpg