Black Ticking in WBS Ameraucanas

[Patti Jordan]

This breeding season I ended up with 2/3rds of my pullets with heavy body/hackle ticking.  A little history, purchased some really nice WBS and they grew out gorgeous and showed well.  I crossed those onto an unrelated line last year and was generally happy with the cross but this season I decided to cross the line back to itself and this is what I got    I know the breeder of this line was really working hard on improving wing/tail color.  Of course I won't be using this cross my next breeding season.  I've slated these pullets for the sale pen as "layer quality" because I've generally found the ticking doesn't molt out.  Any ideas why this occurred ?  Thanks for any advice !

[Mike Gilbert]

I think you answered your own question.    When you outcross, strange things can occur.    But those birds are still very young.   Give them time, and they will improve some when they get all their adult feathers.   But as a general principle, if you are quite happy with what you have, it is usually better to simply breed more of them and cull harder than to bring in a different line.

[Patti Jordan]

Thanks for the helpful information Mike.  I've in the past culled all the birds with dark ticking but found those to have the best tail/wing color.  I know for a fact come their juvenile molt they will still have a lot of ticking, hence why I normally sell them. The birds I got from the breeder originally had some slight ticking, but nothing like these pullets.  I know she crosses her line, father over daughter, etc. so I crossed the line I got from her (they are super nice) back on themselves and that's when all the ticking appeared.   Maybe I'll hold a few back that have the best wing/tail color and type until they go through their adult molt and see what happens. I hate to be too premature moving them down the road if there is hope for them.  I raise hundreds of WBS every breeding season and only a VERY small fraction I hold back as potential breeding/show prospects.

[Tailfeathers]

Totally agree with Mike.  I'm a firm believer of closing a flock and working within it.  Anytime you bring in new blood for something you are also bringing in a host of unknowns.  The more pure the blood the better.

I can't tell ya what causes the ticking but you may have just hit on something.  From your description, I'd say it must be some kind of recessive gene since the first cross didn't cause it but breeding back to itself did.  That would seem to fit with what I've experienced.  Last year I hatched over 150 Ameraucanas out of which I got one pullet that I'd call "mottled".  Much more than just ticking.

Outta curiosity, when you bred the line back to itself was that father to daughters, mother to sons, or brothers to sisters?

The other thing I'd be looking at with all those pullets you showed is the overall brownish coloration.  You probably won't want it to get any darker.

[Patti Jordan]

Thanks Royce, the breeder had 3 pens, so I took a roo from one pen and crossed on hens from the other two pens, not sure how closely related they were but she's had a closed flock for years so I'm sure all were related in some way.  All these pullets are out of the same breeding pen, so it's possible the cross with the rooster in that pen and one hens produced these offspring.  I agree the pullets in the pictures are a little dark for the standard, I personally prefer the more creamier body color.  This line has a lot of ++++ just need to find the right cross     I haven't brought any additional lines into my flock for the last 2 years but I need improvement that I'm not able to accomplish with what I currently have, hence why I purchased hatching eggs    I seriously doubt they'll molt out nice and I have several other prospects in the grow pens.  I may keep a few of the lightest ones back and see how they grow out, but the others I will sell as layer quality as they do produce a really nice dark blue egg.   

[Tailfeathers]

Patti, when you say, "All these pullets are out of the same breeding pen, so it's possible the cross with the rooster in that pen and one hens produced these offspring."; are you saying the hens in that pen aren't full-blood sisters?  If so, I'd encourage you to separate the hens out by only full-blood sisters and then mate with the rooster.  That is the primary reason I recommend toe-punching. 

Linebreeding and Inbreeding is the only way I know to identify improvements or problems.  Here's an example that I show folks:

Breeding Pen #1

#3 Rooster over #8 Hens

Breeding Pen #2

#9 Rooster over #12 Hens

Breeding Pen #3

#3 Rooster over #12 Hens

Breeding Pen #4

#9 Rooster over #8 Hens

Now, let's say that the pullets from the #1 and #3 pens start throwing a lot of ticking.  Can you see who the culprit probably is?  Or maybe it's my #2 and #4 pens.  Now who's the likely culprit?

[Patti Jordan]

Hi Royce, unfortunately I'm space limited so only had 4 breeding pens, each pen consisted of a couple lines.   I suspicioned these pullets are out of the one line by their appearance.  I've since separated all pens for the summer but sounds like I need to get really serious about what hens I put in with what rooster so I can better identify areas of improvement in the future.  For example, I do have some really nice pullets hatched in December, I know what pen they are out of put not sure which hen line produced them.  I do toe punch everything but am running out of punch combinations.  Have you ever done a nostril clip for use in identifying ?  I haven't found any info on the web on how to exactly do it.  Apparently I've not mastered the web cut as the web closes up as they grow    As always - you've been extremely helpful and I'm learning a lot from you !

[Tailfeathers]

Patti, I only have 5 pens and the 2 coops.  Presently only using 4 pens because one is currently being used as a grow out pen for pullets that aren't laying yet.  In the past I used my biggest pen as a place to confine all the roosters.  Then I was able to use the lower coop as a grow out pen and the upper coop as another breeding pen by pulling a rooster out and putting him in a show cage with a female or two.  I'm able to collect the eggs because all the others in the coop are brown egg layers.  Keeping the roosters all in one cage allows me to pull one out, put him in a breeding cage for a day or two, and then putting him back which keeps the hens from getting barebacked. 

No, I've never done a nostril clip.  Never even heard of it.  Never had a need to do more than 16 pens in a year. 

So, in my previous example, were you able to see the probably culprit in each example.  I actually meant to use a different example for the second one so here's a 3rd example for you.  Suppose all the pullets that are toe-punched 2 or 3 throw the ticking.  Now who's the probable culprit(s)? (There's a hint there.    )