building a white flock from 'scratch'

[Stan Alder]

Whites are hard to find, so I'm wondering if I could get some advice on the best way to go about building a white flock??...would it be reasonable to start with a white cock over typy black pullets...and are white Ameraucanas dominate white or recessive? Can I have reasonably good whites in the second year by going this route??...thanks..  if you have recommendations on where to get good foundation birds, I would appreciate them too...if you would prefer to private message me, that will work too....stan

[Harry Shaffer]

Stan whites are silver base so using black pullet/hen only the young pullets should be used back to the white.  If he is brassy I'd use a silver pullet.

[Mike Gilbert]

Whites are hard to find, so I'm wondering if I could get some advice on the best way to go about building a white flock??...would it be reasonable to start with a white cock over typy black pullets...and are white Ameraucanas dominate white or recessive? Can I have reasonably good whites in the second year by going this route??...thanks..  if you have recommendations on where to get good foundation birds, I would appreciate them too...if you would prefer to private message me, that will work too....stan

Stan, no need to re-invent the wheel.   Bob Rennolet had BV and RV white LF at our October national meet.   Since then I have visited him in
South Dakota and seen his flocks.    He has very good whites, and he ships baby chicks.   To answer your question, they carry the recessive white gene (unless somebody has gone and crossed them to another breed), and recessive whites can be either sex linked silver or sex linked gold (males can be split of course).   But you will get better birds using sex linked silvers over an e locus of E (extended black) or ER (birchen), along with two copies of recessive white. 

[Stan Alder]

Thanks for the helpful comments Harry and Mike...gives us an idea of what we need to get started....for certain I need to get back in the genetics links John posted..lol...I'm an old dog and you know how that goes...

[Cesar Villegas]

Whites are hard to find, so I'm wondering if I could get some advice on the best way to go about building a white flock??...would it be reasonable to start with a white cock over typy black pullets...and are white Ameraucanas dominate white or recessive? Can I have reasonably good whites in the second year by going this route??...thanks..  if you have recommendations on where to get good foundation birds, I would appreciate them too...if you would prefer to private message me, that will work too....stan

Stan, no need to re-invent the wheel.   Bob Rennolet had BV and RV white LF at our October national meet.   Since then I have visited him in
South Dakota and seen his flocks.    He has very good whites, and he ships baby chicks.   To answer your question, they carry the recessive white gene (unless somebody has gone and crossed them to another breed), and recessive whites can be either sex linked silver or sex linked gold (males can be split of course).   But you will get better birds using sex linked silvers over an e locus of E (extended black) or ER (birchen), along with two copies of recessive white.

Who would the dam and sire be for the sexlink silver and E or ER parents?

[John W Blehm]

Whites are hard to find, so I'm wondering if I could get some advice on the best way to go about building a white flock??...would it be reasonable to start with a white cock over typy black pullets...and are white Ameraucanas dominate white or recessive? Can I have reasonably good whites in the second year by going this route??...thanks..  if you have recommendations on where to get good foundation birds, I would appreciate them too...if you would prefer to private message me, that will work too....stan

If a white cock and typy black pullets are available it is good way to go.  Assuming the cock is silver (S) all the F1 pullets will appear black, but be silver (as opposed to gold) also since it is sex-linked and they will carry recessive white (c).  The following year you would put the white cock over the F1 pullets and should end up with some very nice pure white cockerels and pullets. 
(Note this is the same breeding formula that is used to improve lavender using black females.)
Recessive white is the best white, since it covers almost everything.  Just as we want them to be silver (S) based to be silvery white, it doesn't hurt if they are also dominant white (I) and splash (Bl) at the same time.  These genes also make mostly white birds and may help make the whites with no hint of black.

[Mike Gilbert]

[Who would the dam and sire be for the sexlink silver and E or ER parents?]

If you purchase really good whites, that is probably what they are already.   If you want to go the longer route, follow John's advice.  But there is probably no way to know whether the black male is silver or gold or split unless there is color leakage in the hackle or elsewhere.   Another good source would be new member John Foley or his friend Kraig Schaefer.   They had some nice birds available at Lebanon.   Gina Neta ended up with some and so did Bob Rennolet.

[Stan Alder]

It's becoming clearer..thanks all...I actually posted this question for someone who asked me about whites...he recently bought a cockerel from Kraig Shaffer and is looking for pullets..I suggested that he breed to black pullets if he could not find whites.. he should be along soon as he told me he sent in a membership form...

[John W Blehm]

Kraig sent in his membership form and dues starting in 2016.  Several others have done the same. 
There is at least one that paid dues, but I'm waiting on the form to see when they want their membership to start.

[Stan Alder]

That might be this guy...his name is Evan and he said that he had paid and mailed his form....good to see the numbers growing!

[Harry Shaffer]

John Blehm,  I sent just a check for 2016 I was not able to get my printer to work.  Just Lavender and Black LF,  I have others but not interested in selling much of anything right now.

[Suki]

Great thread.  I've been waiting a year for Whites from Bob.  Last year was the ban and now the femur, so I'm continuing with my own line of whites because I think they are just beautiful .  Last year after some hatching, I hit pure whites-- two pullets and cockerel.  Alas the prettier (less smut) pullet was egg bound just when she was hitting a year and gone.  I typically, don't breed pullets; but I may have to negotiate.  Luckily, the other one is great layer and the new basis of my future white flock so reading all this was quite helpful.  I'm still trying to figure out why John got rid of his...oh yeah he does not like white.  It seems from what I can tell, no one but Stan and me do either.

[Mike Gilbert]

Sue, you could contact Bob again.   I'm heading out his way again soon to help set up some more breeding pens.   It's only a six hour drive for me.

[Suki]

Thanks Mike for the tip.

[Gina Neta]

I love white birds so you don't have to feel so alone Brown Eyes!  I even beg John for a chance at his White Sports when he gets them!  Rate of lay here has been slow so I am looking forward to things picking up enough to warrant putting the males in with the females.