W/BW chick down

[The Malcolms]

As best I can tell W/BW chick down is almost identical... When can you tell if the chicks are wheaten or blue wheaten?  Do they have to get their "big bird feathers" to be able to tell?  We have a W hen and BW cock so no splash wheaten to think about this time...
Thanks, K

[Mike Gilbert]

You should be able to tell by the wing feathers at a fairly early age.   Later on by the breast feathers in males, and tail feathers in both genders.   But blue can vary a great deal in shade, from nearly black to very pale blue. 

[The Malcolms]

Thanks Mike.😊

[Tailfeathers]

I'm gonna find out in a few weeks when my chicks start hatching but, if I recollect right, the Wheatens were more whitish and the BW's a bit more yellowish?  But, then again, I can't remember what I did yesterday so that could be backwards.

One of the things I've been saying I'm gonna do (for about 7yrs now!) is to take a photo journal of the W and BW thru their first year.  But my breeding plans haven't allowed me yet to separate the birds out to breed for straight W & BW.  Nor has my time allowances.  And I haven't gotten any good SW yet either.

Don't think I'll get it done this year either but maybe if'n I get some good SW these year, I can next.

[The Malcolms]

Thank you Royce.😊. This is our first year hatching W/BW so we will take lots of pictures and see if that helps us tell color next year.

[Cesar Villegas]

Is the a correlation with chicks hatching out with tiny black dot on their head and better feather out coloring?

[Mike Gilbert]

I think so, and it does not have to be a tiny dot either.   Years ago a well known poultry judge sent me a box of hatching eggs (unsolicited) from his championship quality wheaten Old English Game bantams.   They hatched out with quite a bit of dark spots and even minor striping, but they colored up very nicely as they grew.   So if you are culling those blue wheaten and wheaten chicks for having spots, you might be throwing away some of your best colored females.   All the males developed nice clean hackles, so there is/was apparently no correlation with that and the dark spots. 

[John W Blehm]

Is the a correlation with chicks hatching out with tiny black dot on their head and better feather out coloring?

The wheaten variety (color/pattern) is supposed to be based on the wheaten gene (e^Wh or e^y if it exists) at the e-locus.  The popular current belief is there is only one wheaten e-locus gene and other modifying genes, that alter the phenotype, are why they used to (and some still do) believe there was both dominant wheaten e^Wh and recessive wheaten e^y. 
The drawings, below, are from the paper GENETIC CONTROL OF MELANIN PIGMENTATION IN THE FOWL, by J. Robert Smyth, Jr., in 1976.  Note the e^y female has more black in her tail and that is what we want and claimed wheatens should be based on e^y.
There are some things about chicken genetics that we believe to be true today that aren't what they believed a few decades ago and in decades to come I'm sure they will know much more.

[The Malcolms]

We have hatched our first W/BW bantams over the last couple weeks.  They are from 2 pair matings and so we have several full siblings to compare.  Their smudges are all different and some smudges are very dark while others are barely there.  We are trying to track them with photos to see if the mature feathers can be determined by chick down pattern.
As a side note...3 years ago we got some EE bantams that appeared and grew up to be poorly marked wheatens.  However the chick with the largest, darkest striping (almost like a silver chick in wheaten down) grew up with the cleanest, most perfect hackle and saddle we have ever seen.  Unfortunately he has yellow legs and feet and many other faults but it might show that stripes in chick down don't mean stripes in adult feathers.??

[Mike Gilbert]

Correct.   See my edited post above.

[The Malcolms]

Another question-do light wheaten feathers on the chest of 3-4 week old chicks indicate female or does another set of feathers come in after these?  It seems impossible we have all girls so far...

[John W Blehm]

I received a couple emails from Tiffany yesterday...

Woody took Reserve AOCCL (junior show) with his Bantam Wheaten Ameraucana pullet @ MSPA in Sedalia, MO! Wish you still raised them...would love to get more!
Thanks, Tiffiny...

And later...

Thanks John! Ameraucana Alliance membership form is in the mail! We hope to make the Nationals! Oct 10-11?

This seemed to fit with this topic...anyhow what caught my eye and impressed me was the amount of black in the tail of this pullet.  I know Mike always liked a creamery wheaten color, but even with her darker wheaten color I don't see black in her hackles.

[Mike Gilbert]

Another question-do light wheaten feathers on the chest of 3-4 week old chicks indicate female or does another set of feathers come in after these?  It seems impossible we have all girls so far...

Look closely at the base of those chest feathers and the pins just starting.  If they are dark, it will be a cockerel.  If they are light all the way to the skin, it will be a pullet.

[Mike Gilbert]

I received a couple emails from Tiffany yesterday...

Woody took Reserve AOCCL (junior show) with his Bantam Wheaten Ameraucana pullet @ MSPA in Sedalia, MO! Wish you still raised them...would love to get more!
Thanks, Tiffiny...

And later...

Thanks John! Ameraucana Alliance membership form is in the mail! We hope to make the Nationals! Oct 10-11?

This seemed to fit with this topic...anyhow what caught my eye and impressed me was the amount of black in the tail of this pullet.  I know Mike always liked a creamery wheaten color, but even with her darker wheaten color I don't see black in her hackles.

She is a very nice bird.  And yes, I do prefer the light creamy color -  it is what the ABA and APA Standards call for.   It was not supposed to be easy.  The blue wheaten hen in my avatar is a light, creamy shade and yet has a lot of blue in the tail.   She did well at the shows some years ago now.

[The Malcolms]

Thanks for the info Mike.  Looks like 3 girls so far...  😊