loosing chicks, very hard shell, tough membrane

[Rebecca G Howie]

Getting good hatches from all the eggs set except for 1 Wheaten Bantam. Just a few of her chicks make it out of the shell. I have opened a lot of the eggs and find a beautiful, fully developed chick that has taken up the yolk but died before internal pip. I thought they took up the yolk after internal pip and before external pip.

The membrane seems tough. I know her shells are very hard compared to all my other hens' eggs and much harder to candle. She has the same diet as all the others.

Any thoughts on this? Is it hereditary?

I feel helpless and awful about the poor chicks. I know they should be strong enough to escape the egg on their own, but I think these guys are being challenged too much!

She only lays every 2-3 days so I feel like every egg is precious

[Russ Blair]

Some crosses/breeders I have noticed just have poor hatch ability. If you are feeding a good Ration, giving vitamin supplements and have treated for internal and external parasites then this might be what your experiencing? I have seen certain breeders have great fertility but very poor hatch ability, needless to say they didn't stick around long.

[Cesar Villegas]

Getting good hatches from all the eggs set except for 1 Wheaten Bantam. Just a few of her chicks make it out of the shell. I have opened a lot of the eggs and find a beautiful, fully developed chick that has taken up the yolk but died before internal pip. I thought they took up the yolk after internal pip and before external pip.

The membrane seems tough. I know her shells are very hard compared to all my other hens' eggs and much harder to candle. She has the same diet as all the others.

Any thoughts on this? Is it hereditary?

I feel helpless and awful about the poor chicks. I know they should be strong enough to escape the egg on their own, but I think these guys are being challenged too much!

She only lays every 2-3 days so I feel like every egg is precious

People refuse to help because they want the toughest and healthiest chicks to come out on there own. People say let natures take its course. I say we already mess with nature by using artificial incubators, so I see no difference with helping it while in the egg.

 When I see no progress on chicks with or without the initial pip. I crack open, peal back the membrane and expose its head to air and I place back in the incubator to let simmer for another 8-12 hours. This way I ensure it wont drown or suffocate.  If they dont come out on their own, I help them out. And Im careful when pulling the chick out and I always have scissors to cut the umbilical goo so I wont pull out its insides or something.

i usually help when the majority have hatched.

[Beth Curran]

In my experience, it is hereditary. I ran into this with LF wheatens early on. I helped them out of the shell. Contrary to what I had heard, I had nice, healthy chicks who grew into strong, healthy birds, who laid big, beautiful eggs. That chicks could not break out of. Faced with the prospect of performing c-sections on an increasing number of eggs for generations to come, I made the difficult decision to sell them all as layers, and lost a whole season in the process. That said, if that concrete egg was laid by the best bird I ever hatched, I'd probably break them out, toe punch them, avoid using the male offspring if at all possible, closely monitor the eggs from the female offspring and only keep the daughters with the best (unassisted) hatch rates. It depends on how bad you need that bird as a breeder.

[Max Strawn]

I have experienced basically the same thing. I quit helping them out and the problem took care of itself.

[Rebecca G Howie]

In my experience, it is hereditary. I ran into this with LF wheatens early on. I helped them out of the shell. Contrary to what I had heard, I had nice, healthy chicks who grew into strong, healthy birds, who laid big, beautiful eggs. That chicks could not break out of. Faced with the prospect of performing c-sections on an increasing number of eggs for generations to come, I made the difficult decision to sell them all as layers, and lost a whole season in the process. That said, if that concrete egg was laid by the best bird I ever hatched, I'd probably break them out, toe punch them, avoid using the male offspring if at all possible, closely monitor the eggs from the female offspring and only keep the daughters with the best (unassisted) hatch rates. It depends on how bad you need that bird as a breeder.

Thanks Beth, I think I will follow the route of keeping only 1-2 of her daughters. She is pretty nice and I would like to have a couple of chicks from her at this point. I have started toe punching so I can keep close track of the offspring of my little flock. I can then track them in the future.

[Cesar Villegas]

Another possible culprit to hard shells, is the feed that is being used. I quit using layer feed before and during the breeding season. I did notice a difference too.

Also figuring out what humidity gives you the best hatch rates. I went from 70% to 90% hatch rate by increasing my humidity 5%. Every incubator is different. You just have to find the "sweet spot" so to speak.

[Max Strawn]

I think climate and geographic location play a part as well. Incubation techniques will vary depending on where you live.

[Rebecca G Howie]

Yes Cesar and Max. Here in Florida with the high humidity, I found that I did better by lowering humidity in the incubator. Also I had better hatches when I reduced to hatcher temp to 97 degrees, most chicks arrived day of instead of a day or so early and seemed less stressed. I am going to change up the feed to see if that helps with the shells.

[Lee G]

I have experienced basically the same thing. I quit helping them out and the problem took care of itself.

I'll third this.

Your flock will only be stronger for it in the end. 

Another possible culprit to hard shells, is the feed that is being used. I quit using layer feed before and during the breeding season. I did notice a difference too.

Good point Cesar. Diet can definitely play a role in things. You are what you eat after all, lol. Since we have a well here, and our water is fairly high in mineral content as well as calcium, I quit using layer ration years ago. Now I just feed grower, which doesn't have all the extra calcium, and offer oyster shell free choice. My males are much healthier too. And no more rock hard eggs!

[Suki]

Yes Cesar and Max. Here in Florida with the high humidity, I found that I did better by lowering humidity in the incubator.

Actually RGH that shouldn't matter as the incubator is a closed unit i.e. no heat or air should get in.Perhaps you just had the humidity high in there to start with and unless you have a HumidiKit or some such it would be hard to know as the minute you open it---poof there it goes.

[John W Blehm]

Yes Cesar and Max. Here in Florida with the high humidity, I found that I did better by lowering humidity in the incubator.

Actually RGH that shouldn't matter as the incubator is a closed unit i.e. no heat or air should get in.Perhaps you just had the humidity high in there to start with and unless you have a HumidiKit or some such it would be hard to know as the minute you open it---poof there it goes.

They are enclosed, but not closed to air flow.  Fresh air is constantly sucked in and air is expelled, so the high humidity in FL and low humidity in CO mean climate dictates different vent settings.

[Suki]

Good point, I have forgotten that.

[Shari Nees]

People refuse to help because they want the toughest and healthiest chicks to come out on there own. People say let natures take its course. I say we already mess with nature by using artificial incubators, so I see no difference with helping it while in the egg.

 When I see no progress on chicks with or without the initial pip. I crack open, peal back the membrane and expose its head to air and I place back in the incubator to let simmer for another 8-12 hours. This way I ensure it wont drown or suffocate.  If they dont come out on their own, I help them out. And Im careful when pulling the chick out and I always have scissors to cut the umbilical goo so I wont pull out its insides or something.

i usually help when the majority have hatched.

Had this problem with my White AM bantams, membranes we super thick. Had to help all the chicks hatch as the chicks couldn't make it through that.
All were healthy and hardy.    (Haven't hatched out any of my Full sized BW Am's yet)

My DH, when he made hard boiled eggs, even complained how thick the membranes were. LOL

All my birds are healthy, most free range or have large runs and get a good Non GMO Organic feed.   Only thing I think it could be (if it is not genetic)  Is...
Fescue grass infected with endophyte (a fungus) that can cause really thick placentas in horses, cattle ...etc....
I know I have this grass where some of my chickens range, not impossible that this endophyte can affect chickens too.

[Suki]

I would agree that it is possible Shari about the grass based on the Miss State  article below.  Seems to affect a lot of grass feeders and hard to control. 

The Fescue Endophyte -- Most of the tall fescue being grown is the Kentucky-31 variety, which was discovered in 1931 in Kentucky. Since its release, it has been planted throughout the fescue-growing region. Researchers have discovered that most fescue has always been infected with an endophyte fungus that grows throughout the plant between the cell walls.

The word endophyte means that the fungus is hidden within the plant and cannot be seen with the naked eye. When the plant is producing seed in the spring, the fungus grows up the hollow stem and into the developing seed.

http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p1982.htm

Have you found a way around it?